I think I'm done

[CTAnton]

To be honest, you guys and gals are right. I never thought it through but I am in several higher end shops and that's the direction I want to go in. Many thanks to all!

 

[Spice]

Navigator, I don't know if this helps but down my way there are several huge flea markets, one of them every weekend, that don't cost a fortune to participate in . I don't do any fairs as of yet but I wonder if the sheer volume of people would make for a profitable day. Maybe its a numbers game; if 1% of attendees buy something from me....
I was invited to sell at a farmers market that had a soap maker on alternate weekends. While I have no idea of why it happened, she dropped out.I went there earlier in the season and the number of vendor vehicles outnumbered the customers by a huge margin...just my thoughts...

I think I'm done with craft fairs. I did one today, that was supposed to have 60 to 65 vendors...there may have been 30. There were a fair amount of customers, but most of the vendors only did so so. The only one who was selling like hotcakes was the lady selling truffles. She had customers several deep for most of the day, but most of the vendors I spoke with did pretty poorly. I sold $117 worth, and the booth fee was $50, so I cleared $67, and that's just not nearly worth it for what I put into it. Of course, this has happened before, when I said I'm done, but then I forget how tired and discouraged I am afterward, and I get sucked back in again. So if you hear me post again that I'm thinking of doing another craft fair, please give me a virtual smack upside the head, and tell me to forget it. And if you want to do craft fairs...think about selling truffles instead of soap...that woman cleaned up!!!

CTAnton,I refuse to sell my products at flea markets. Be careful of flea markets and swap meets, it gets you labeled as a swap meet vendor. I travel up to 50+ miles for some monthly markets and people will recognize my label. Customers will tell me they saw me at so and so market.

navigator9, I was at a craft fair the early part of this month, it was crap! Last year, same time, same market, I did 4x the amount I did this season. I have learned that when things dont do will, I have to find the, "What can I learn from this." As I sat there waiting for some one to come by and buy, I noticed that my name keep confusing people with my soap. My name is on the label. That was learning lesson number one, change my label. Then I started looking at my booth. I noticed that the way I had set up my booth had created a little blind spot that I never noticed before, change number two. And finally, I decided to to change my layout of my tables so that they could be more customer friendly. When life gives me lemons, I sell them!

When I was starting out, I was very scare to come out of my closet, so of speak. I had no pretty tables, didnt even have a table cloth for my 1950 year old poker table; I had no idea what to say, I didnt even know how to describe my products to others. All I knew was that if I was to get out, I had to do the raw thing, if I could sell at a flea/swap market, I could sell anywhere. This was how I honed my skills at talking soap. Convincing people of another lanugage why they need to buy my 6 dollar bar at a flea market. I knew at some point in time I would say good-bye. No one has ever said a thing to me about it and I dare anyone too. I am very strong on judging others, and I let others know it. BUT.....I use my age to get away with it. I dont dye my hair, so I call it Silver, now, how is someone going to disagree with an older woman and look cool? Just saying, will be 61 this Nov.

 

[PuddinAndPeanuts]

I do maybe 20-30 shows a year. I started off doing only jewelry, then added bath and body. My sales volume doubled instantly. To this day, most shows are 1/2 and 1/2 between the two. My point being, diversity definitely helps me. The only other thing I'd say is to really evaluate your shows. I haven't found much of a relationship between what I pay to be in a show vs how much I'll sell. I do know that I need to avoid church or school shows unless it's Christmas time. When evaluating whether to do a show, I look at how many years it's been going on and the average income of the zip code it's in as a start to figuring out if it's worthwhile

 

[JuneP]

I went through the same thing when I was selling my pottery through craft shows. One time I was next to a guy selling German silver rings, which aren't even silver, and there was a long line of people waiting to buy those. The other problem I had with that home town show, was we are a tourist town, and people loved my work, but they'd say, I don't have any more room in my suitcase! I loved peoples feedback but the sales just weren't enough, in my mind to make up for the time spent away from the studio, setting up, tearing down and and energy it took to do it.

I always did better at my home gallery sales. A friend of mine once a year invited other artists and held her own outdoor show at her home. She was a pottery and invited a couple of other potters, a weaver and other high end crafts people. Everyone provided their mailing lists and the cost of the printing and postage was shared. That worked out better than a lot of our local craft shows.

When you live in a tourist town, and I've lived in two over the years, the people who do best it seems were those selling jewelry and clothing and other easily packable items.

I think I'm done with craft fairs. I did one today, that was supposed to have 60 to 65 vendors...there may have been 30. There were a fair amount of customers, but most of the vendors only did so so. The only one who was selling like hotcakes was the lady selling truffles. She had customers several deep for most of the day, but most of the vendors I spoke with did pretty poorly. I sold $117 worth, and the booth fee was $50, so I cleared $67, and that's just not nearly worth it for what I put into it. Of course, this has happened before, when I said I'm done, but then I forget how tired and discouraged I am afterward, and I get sucked back in again. So if you hear me post again that I'm thinking of doing another craft fair, please give me a virtual smack upside the head, and tell me to forget it. And if you want to do craft fairs...think about selling truffles instead of soap...that woman cleaned up!!!

 

[SunRiseArts]

I think I'm done with craft fairs. I did one today, that was supposed to have 60 to 65 vendors...there may have been 30. There were a fair amount of customers, but most of the vendors only did so so. The only one who was selling like hotcakes was the lady selling truffles. She had customers several deep for most of the day, but most of the vendors I spoke with did pretty poorly. I sold $117 worth, and the booth fee was $50, so I cleared $67, and that's just not nearly worth it for what I put into it. Of course, this has happened before, when I said I'm done, but then I forget how tired and discouraged I am afterward, and I get sucked back in again. So if you hear me post again that I'm thinking of doing another craft fair, please give me a virtual smack upside the head, and tell me to forget it. And if you want to do craft fairs...think about selling truffles instead of soap...that woman cleaned up!!!

This is interesting, I was wondering what the average people make minus supplies, booth, etc.

I thought I would get into the next craft fair, but is making less than 100 an average, because then is not worth it ....

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think many people over estimate how successful a show was, by thinking "I sell a soap for $5 and the booth costs $50, so if I sell 11 soaps I have made a profit". But that ignores the actual costs of the soap itself. If you sell at $5 but the soap itself costs you $3 to make, you have to sell 26 soaps to make a profit from the show ($5 price - $3 cost = $2 profit per soap, $50 booth fee / $2 = 25 soaps to break even, + 1 soap for profit)

 

[PuddinAndPeanuts]

I think many people over estimate how successful a show was, by thinking "I sell a soap for $5 and the booth costs $50, so if I sell 11 soaps I have made a profit". But that ignores the actual costs of the soap itself. If you sell at $5 but the soap itself costs you $3 to make, you have to sell 26 soaps to make a profit from the show ($5 price - $3 cost = $2 profit per soap, $50 booth fee / $2 = 25 soaps to break even, + 1 soap for profit)

You're forgetting of the the craft fair vendors greatest mandatory expenses... yummy craft fair FOOD!!!

 

[navigator9]

This is interesting, I was wondering what the average people make minus supplies, booth, etc.

I thought I would get into the next craft fair, but is making less than 100 an average, because then is not worth it ....

Give it a try, you never know. I have a love/hate relationship with craft fairs. I LOVE doing them. I love the atmosphere when you get there early in the morning to set up. I love meeting the other vendors, looking around to see what they're selling. I love talking to the customers about soap.

I hate getting ready. I'm really picky, and I wrap my soaps in tissue and then a cigar band, and I'm very fussy with the wrapping, so it's tedious and takes forever. I hate loading the car. I have a teeny car, and it's always a miserable job trying to squeeze everything in. And I'm getting older, and everything feels heavier than it used to! I hate getting to the venue and having to unload the car all over again, drag it in and set up, only to have to break it all down at the end of the day, drive home, and unload it all again. If, and this is a big if...if you make enough money, it makes it all worth it. But lately, the return just hasn't been enough, and I get home asking myself, why am I doing this?

So then I stop, and some time goes by, and I start missing the craft fairs again, and I forget how miserable it is when you don't do well, and I get sucked back in!!! But you may live in an area where craft fairs do well, and you may be very successful. So I say, try it and see how it goes for you. I'm not sure if it's still the economy, or what it is, but people just don't seem to be spending at craft fairs like they used to. So try one and see what you think!

 

[DeeAnna]

I've done fairs off and on since about 2005 or so, and my sales are almost always a break even or a loss. I've used the argument "it must be the economy" in the past to justify spotty sales, but I've been saying this for soooooo long ... it's hard to believe that's the problem.

 

[cmzaha]

I love attending craft fairs and meeting the people plus the vendor friends I have made over the years. Sales are certainly not what they used to be with all the DIY sites whether safe, good or bad most just do not know the difference and blissfully make their unsafe lotion at home. In the last year I have had more and more come to my booth and mention they make all their own lotion, when I asked how they preserve it 9-10 say they do not need preservative.... I will say, if we had to unload our truck and haul everything downstairs after each market I would probably not do them. I am fortunate enough to live on a quite dead end hillside street, so we just back the truck into the carport and leave everything packed.Last year we did up to 4 per week but now with the parents we are down to 1 since I cannot comment to any market managers of being there each week. The owner of our market understands plus he owes me dearly! That's another story.

Sales at craft fairs and farmer markets can very much depend on the location of the market and where you are in the market. If you have all B&B sometimes you can get the manager/owner to get you close to the produce area and it can lead to double the sales if you are out of the craft area. Getting preference in a market usually means a few years of attending and sticking with them, even attending their loser markets. Owners will have their list of their standby vendors that they call on when they are in desperate need of vendors.

My Wed Kaiser market which is/was a great market for me now sucks. We had to move to another location and my sales are now down to $50 a day. During the holiday sales were averaging $300 a week which was nice and up to last week with the move sales averaged $150 -200 per week, which would not be a lot if I had to pay the $50 booth fee. With the distance of 60 miles round trip it is a loser at the moment, but I will stick it out to keep the owner from losing his market. Believe me I have been having thoughts of quitting. I also have no desire to wholesale. I think he is going to have a new market open up next month on Thursdays twice a month and that one I am looking forward to. Sometimes I think, especially in our area, that Farmer's Market are dying out or there are just to many of them. It is hard frustrating work but I do still love it even though I get bummed out at times.

 

[SunRiseArts]

I've done fairs off and on since about 2005 or so, and my sales are almost always a break even or a loss. I've used the argument "it must be the economy" in the past to justify spotty sales, but I've been saying this for soooooo long ... it's hard to believe that's the problem.

I think is mainly a mind set more than anything. Hand made soaps are a luxury. I used to go to Macys to buy good soap, and to Ross to find them if I was lucky. They became too expensive, and could not afford them, which Is why I learned to make them. Since I am an artist, then I have become so entangle with it. ha ha

I dislike commercial soap so much. Is so bad for your skin ... but the average folk out there probably thinks why pay 5 dollars for a bar of soap, if I can get 8 or 10 at the grocery store for the same price?

Lots of people do not know, and / or do not care what they put on their skin. Even though it is the largest organ in our body.

Lately there is a fad with bath bombs and such because of certain companies I shall not name. Is a fashion thing, that is all.

 

[navigator9]

I've done fairs off and on since about 2005 or so, and my sales are almost always a break even or a loss. I've used the argument "it must be the economy" in the past to justify spotty sales, but I've been saying this for soooooo long ... it's hard to believe that's the problem.

I know Dee, I feel the same way about that. And then sometimes, I would think it was just me who wasn't doing well, so I'd go around and talk to the other vendors, and when I did really poorly, so did everyone else. Well, almost everyone, the food vendors always seem to do well. Soapmakers, if you want to sell...sell food instead of soap!!!

I love attending craft fairs and meeting the people plus the vendor friends I have made over the years. Sales are certainly not what they used to be with all the DIY sites .

You know, I never thought of that, but maybe since you can learn how to make anything these days on the internet, maybe people are making their own crafts instead of buying them.

All I know is that years ago, people would go to craft fairs to get unique gifts that they couldn't find in stores. Today, a lot of craft fairs allow vendors who sell Avon, and Tupperware, Scentsy, etc. I've always tried to avoid those, but maybe shoppers don't see craft fairs as the unique shopping experience they once were. It's a shame. Good luck to all of you who are giving it a go!

 

[shunt2011]

I've been doing shows for quite a few years now. I was doing 7-10 per year but last year only did 4 and had my best year yet. Trying the same thing this year. They are fairly large shows in tourist towns about 3 hours from me but my parents live up that way so it's not a huge expense. I generally pay about 100 for a two day show. If this year is as good I think I'll stick to doing it this way. That and the sales I make at work and to family keep me being able to do it and put extra money in my pockets.

 

[cmzaha]

Be been doing shows for quite a few years now. I was doing 7-10 per year but last year only did 4 and had my best year yet. Trying the same thing this year. They are fairly large shows in tourist towns about 3 hours from me but my parents live up that way so it's not a huge expense. I generally pay about 100 for a two day show. If this year is as good I think I'll stick to doing it this way. That and the sales I make at work and to family keep me being able to do it and put extra money in my pockets.

I did have one great 5 day over 2 weekends last year. It is a show I have attended for several years and the previous years had gone not so well. I was glad I forced the hubby to go last year as it was the best I have ever done there. Certainly had something to do with only 1 other soapmaker was there selling when she usually brings in 5 or 6. The cost of my 5 day one was $250. Three other large Holiday shows were barely make costs shows @ $50 per day.

 

[wetshavingproducts]

I think many people over estimate how successful a show was, by thinking "I sell a soap for $5 and the booth costs $50, so if I sell 11 soaps I have made a profit". But that ignores the actual costs of the soap itself. If you sell at $5 but the soap itself costs you $3 to make, you have to sell 26 soaps to make a profit from the show ($5 price - $3 cost = $2 profit per soap, $50 booth fee / $2 = 25 soaps to break even, + 1 soap for profit)

You forgot the time. Time to setup & breakdown & the time to man the booth. Multiply that by minimum wage and that's what you lost by not working McDonald's for X hours. If you had a helper, add that cost in too.

And then double minimum wage because you really aren't going to find anyone to work for you for that little. It's hard work and unless the unemployment rate is astronomical, you aren't going to get good help for less than 1.5x minimum wage, but 2x minimum and you should be able to get someone good. Also, don't forget that employing someone incurs additional costs other than wages, such as employer's tax (SSN & medicare), unemployment insurance, & worker's comp. So really, your time is your most valuable asset.

That said, if you had nothing better to do and like manual labor, then go for it. Or if you just love doing it, who am I to tell you what to do or not to do. But if you're serious about making a profit, you need to take those costs into consideration.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Very good points. Add in time and use of a car to get there and markets most likely aren't in themselves overly profitable. Maybe more marketing tools

 

[LilyJo]

Very good points. Add in time and use of a car to get there and markets most likely aren't in themselves overly profitable. Maybe more marketing tools

THIS!!

We have more or less stopped doing fairs and markets unless its one we really WANT to do or if we need to get some feedback on branding etc. We tend to just use them as marketing opportunities, they sure as heck dont make enough to consider them as truly profitable!

 

[debbism]

Good points. I've always found the weekly local markets to be a bust. Usually 38-50 for the booth and I was lucky to break even. After a year of fighting to do well, I switched to more themed events and found my niche. They were more 2-3 day events and festivals that seem to be more lucrative and a hell of a lot more fun.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

For what it's worth, just thinking out loud...

I think if you want to have a successful B & B business, keep up with the times. I would be thinking about Amazon. Did you hear? Amazon bought Whole Foods this week! It's a different world. People are shopping retail less and less -- since we can buy on line for the same cost and not hafta go thru the hassle of traffic, not to forget the time-saving factor of buying on line.

Let's face it. Craft fairs are great for the camaraderie and opportunity for face time with customers, but craft fairs are going the way of retail stores, i.e., disappearing all over the place.

I just did a quick check "Amazon homemade soap" and there aren't many. And the ones I saw didn't compete with the lovely soaps that show up every day on SMF. I'm not sure about online artisan shops like Etsy.

Another thought... 2 Colorado soapers I know, started out at farmers markets for a few years and then started selling wholesale to places all over the USA. They are actually making a living selling B & B products to Boutiques, Bed & Breakfast establishments, Nurseries, Spas, Hotels, etc. Of course, it's more work than fun, but they keep busy and, happily, don't have to drag stuff somewhere, set up, take down and drag most of the product back home again.

Something to think about.

 

[wetshavingproducts]

Very good points. Add in time and use of a car to get there and markets most likely aren't in themselves overly profitable. Maybe more marketing tools

Yup. Marketing is the only possible benefit to most of the craft fairs from a purely business perspective. That said, marketing is also the humongous black hole of business. And how much that craft show increased your brand's standing is pretty much impossible to track, and in all honestly, probably not a huge effect unless you had a lot of interested people who took your sales literature.

I just did a quick check "Amazon homemade soap" and there aren't many. And the ones I saw didn't compete with the lovely soaps that show up every day on SMF. I'm not sure about online artisan shops like Etsy.

That's because amazon is not the place for homemade soaps. It's the place for mass produced inexpensive items that are purpose built for shipping as opposed to B&M retail.

Another thought... 2 Colorado soapers I know, started out at farmers markets for a few years and then started selling wholesale to places all over the USA. They are actually making a living selling B & B products to Boutiques, Bed & Breakfast establishments, Nurseries, Spas, Hotels, etc. Of course, it's more work than fun, but they keep busy and, happily, don't have to drag stuff somewhere, set up, take down and drag most of the product back home again.

Something to think about.

Volume is the only way to make real money soaping. 200 years ago home made soap & luxury soap were the only game in town. Then industrialization hit, advertising improved, and P&G and Lever Brothers were born. Of course, a lot of competitors were mowed into the ground or were gobbled up by those two, palmolive and lifebuoy (which may be lever bros) come to mind. Massive mergers happened too so that today those are the two behemoths we're stuck with now.