I Take It All Back!

[MidwestSoaper]

Before making bath and body products I did a lot of research and read extensively. I learned one very basic rule: if water is used to make a product (like lotion, cream, liquid or cream soap, etc); the product needs a preservative.

The nasties that grow cannot at first be seen, smelled, or felt. A small artisan business or hobbyist does not always have access to the most elegant or effective ingredients and we must use extra care to be certain that we cause no harm to those using our products. If you don't want to use a preservative, don't formulate a product requiring water. There are anhydrous alternatives.

 

[grayceworks]

It also depends on water activity, whether water is unbound and available for microbial growth, and again PH. But there is no way aside from thorough challenge testing to be sure a water-continuing product falls within the scope of not requiring preservative. And that's something that I think many smaller soapers and body-products makers would find cost-prohibitive to do for every liquid or cream sop recipe they design, especially when it is simpler and more fool-proof to add a preservative. I myself am allergic to quite a few things including some preservative ingredients, which is why I got started making my own stuff. There are so many good preservatives now, including ones that are at least naturally derived or approved for use in organic products. Then you also can design your stuff so that you don't need as much preservative by including other factors that discourage microbes and help to prevent contamination, even down to things like the type of packaging. There are so many things to consider.

I am thinking that at some point, when I am well and truly happy with some of my liquid soap recipes, I may go ahead and get a recipe full-on challenge tested for a year like I've done in the past with my lotions, and see what comes up.

In the meantime, some good reading from a testing lab, and also an article on preservatives, how to help them be more effective, using hurdles, etc. as well as a bit of info to ponder on making your products hostile to nasties.

http://www.antimicrobialtestlaboratories.com/Information_About_Preservatives.htm

http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/

PS - I can't use contact lens stuff either.

 

[new12soap]

Grayce, where do you do your challenge testing? That link, or another place? If you don't mind my asking...

 

[cmzaha]

I understand your position, Carolyn. I really do. And I would be right there with you on that except for one tiny detail: I am one of those lucky people that are allergic to the preservative in the contact lens products. This makes me extremely leery to the thought of adding those products(or similar) to soap I am going to use. I know that the preservatives are in tiny amounts in soap, but they are in tiny amounts in contact lens solutions also.

I AM going to downsize my batch amounts, though. No more large batches or making more before the last is used up. Or maybe I will freeze the paste and dilute as needed. Either way, lesson learned. And proper caution will be taken.

I fully undstand alleries Susie and they can be a b***h. I have some very severe allergies and an allergic person cannot afford to push their luck if the allergies are severe. I keep my LS paste in paste form and only dilute small amounts of ls which I have never had a problem with. Only the cream soap have caused problems. Only difference I really see with cream soap is it is made with a high percentage of stearic acid and I wonder if that is an issue. Guess I shall be doing some research.
There is not a thing on this earth that is truly non-allergic. It annoys me when people state they purchase only hypo-allergenic because they have allergies...DUH. Sorry strayed a bit from the topic here

 

[Lindy]

Gracyeworks that's an excellent idea. Challenge testing will tell me what is going on. I have the home kit and I will start there and then move on. I have other batches of the same age and some that are even older. As I said this is the first and only batch to develop a problem.

 

[lady-of-4]

Gracyeworks that's an excellent idea. Challenge testing will tell me what is going on. I have the home kit and I will start there and then move on. I have other batches of the same age and some that are even older. As I said this is the first and only batch to develop a problem.

Lindy, I'd been following your thread, and I'm sorry your cream soap got icky. Might I ask where you get the home kit from? Despite my stance on preservatives, I'd like to know myself if I truly need to use one or not for my recipes. I do for conditioner and I'm running a small experiment with that. But I'd considered sending in samples for testing. Thanks.

 

[Lindy]

I got mine from Snowdrift Farms but they are also available from Lotion Crafters...

 

[lady-of-4]

I got mine from Snowdrift Farms but they are also available from Lotion Crafters...

I appreciate you sharing. Thank you.

 

[Lindy]

Oh you are most welcome - it is what we do here - share.......

 

[DavidinTexas]

Since cream soaps are super fatted ( or super creamed ) and liquid soaps are usually not - would that be a factor?

 

[grayceworks]

Grayce, where do you do your challenge testing? That link, or another place? If you don't mind my asking...

I've just requested a quote from that place in the link. I used to use a local lab where a friend worked back in AZ when I first started making my own stuff, because she gave me a good price and those recipes I now pretty much just do quality control on using the home test kits.

There's lots of little local labs, not even necessarily cosmetics labs, who will check samples for microbes for about $35 - $50 per sample, so I take advantage of that whenever I change an existing recipe, to be sure the change doesn't affect the preservative effectiveness.

I don't really change often though, because it works, and my customers like it, so I haven't had to deal with more than the home kits for a while...

I can't remember who my former partner used for full-on challenge testing before that, and I don't have any records from that time period... She hung on to those - I do remember she wasted quite a bit of time and money trying to go "all natural" with -and without- some of those supposed natural preservatives. Which is probably why we never got past the local level back then either. Hmm. Sorry, thinking out loud lol.

But I'm comparing quotes on challenge testing with various companies, local here in GA now, and elsewhere, since I have some new completely different lotion and conditioner recipes that have passed all my home tests, that I'm wanting to finalize, so I may go ahead and ask about liquid and cream soap also. I'll let you know what I find out!

I use either the lotioncrafters or the makingcosmetics home test kits, depending on who I'm putting an order in with at the time.

 

[new12soap]

Thanks, Grayce and yes please let us know

 

[Lindy]

I just checked a couple of tubs of Cream Soap from 2011 and they are just fine..... so weird...

 

[grayceworks]

Maybe some weird contaminant got in there that wouldn't normally, from the water used, from the container, airborne? I had one single lotion jar come up with a weird airborne mold after only 2 months one time that's not even usually found indoors, and it wasn't in any of the bottles of the same batch, just in the new wide-mouth jar with an unlined plastic lid I was trying out. Was the weirdest thing, especially since we live 24 floors up and rarely open the windows. And apparently was resistant to the preservative that keeps all the normal nasties at bay. Never happened again, even when I tested more wide-mouth jars with various lids, and dipping fingers in the jars, so I started disinfecting containers twice after that lol.

 

[lady-of-4]

Random instances of contamination can happen, even with the best of efforts. As. Gracyeworks said, something came in that wasn't even a normal indoor contaminate. Probably got in through the ventilation system. Maybe you can find out exactly what strain of mold it was, Lindy?

 

[Lindy]

Unfortunately I threw it out... LOL