I need some SERIOUS help with lotion NOW!!!

[larita]

Hi my name is Larita, and yes that is my real name I am new to the forum and I have been playing around with lotion for a few weeks now. They have a charity function here where live and it is tomorrow Sunday, Monday and Tuesday. I would like to participate since everything we sell goes to the childern the charity is assisting. I need help! I am not confident with my products just yet and have only shared them with immediate family so far. I have alot of ingredients as I found a lady locally who was getting out of the business and sold me lots of stuff dirt cheap last month and thats when I started. Ok this is what I have done and what I am trying to do. I am trying to create a body lotion, a body butter, a lip balm(stick type) and a body wash. I have been working on the body butter and lotion. I started with a 70% water phase. I added glycerin at about 4% and some aloe vera water into the water phase. I am using ewax nf as my emulsifier and I use cetearyl alcohol as well. I would have preferred to use cetyl alcohol but I dont have any. I use butters like shea and cocoa butter and almond oil. My water phase is about 70% my oil phase about 25% and my cool down phase is about 5%. I use ewax at about 25% of the oil phase. Now from what I have read 70% water phase is a regular lotion not too light and not too thick but mine is coming out thick like body butter. Even when I remove the stearic acid and the cetearyl alcohol and make it with just the ewax it is still so thick when I turn the jar upside down it won't fall out. Will I have to use 80 or 90% water to make it thin? I think this is not supposed to be happening????? Is it???? Also it seems a bit waxy when I rub it on and that REALLY bothers me! I want it to feel like the body butters I buy from the store. I dont want it to feel like like some waxy homemade concoction. It feels kinda nice when I rub it, it makes my hands have a nice sheen and its doesn't feel greasy but it doesn't feel like its moisturizing my skin deep down. I tried adding some other additives to TRY to enhance it and over come the waxiness, give it more slip and make it moisturize my skin deeper but it actually seems the same or slightly worse after those additions. I added panthenol, guarhydroxypropyltrimmonium chloride, and allantoin and its no better. That doesn't make sense. when a person adds all the stuff that I added I should have had a really great cream but it is quite basic and underperforming in my estimation. I am willing to stay up all night to get this right as I am dedicated to do a great job on anything I start. It is 11pm here and I want to sell these at the fundraiser tomorrow. Anybody that can help. God bless you and I welcome and greatly need your help. Waiting to hear from you.

 

[Hazel]

I understand you want to contribute to the children's charity and I applaud your desire to participate in it. However, if you don't have tested recipe which you know will stand up over time - don't do it!!!

You don't know if the lotion will separate in a few weeks. You don't know how effective the preservative may be in the recipe, etc. It doesn't matter how admirable the reason behind selling, people who buy at charities still expect to receive value for their money. If they buy lotion and it separates, they'll be upset even though the money goes to a good cause. Plus, they may believe all handmade products are bad and will not purchase any in the future. It reflects badly on the entire handmade industry.

You have to be absolutely confident that you have created the best lotion before selling. If you rush in and sell something that's going to go bad, you've ruined your chances for future opportunities. Since you stated you've been "playing" for a few weeks, I'm assuming you don't have liability insurance. I highly recommend it.

Please read ---> viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17621

 

[larita]

Hazel thank you for commenting on my post. I totally understand where you are coming from. I have tested the lotion I have by leaving it in the hot car and then refreezing it 3 times. like 3 cycles. I was told this could ensure it would not seperate. Plus I used a little more ewax than 25% like plus 1. Do you have any suggestions for the main issues that were bothering me like how can I get it to stop having a waxy feel and how I can get it to be more penetrating with the moisture and why it is so thick even when I dont use secondary emulsifiers thickeners like cetearyl alcohol or stearic acid? Please I am still online.

 

[Hazel]

Larita -

Who told you this would ensure that the lotion would not separate? Although I can certainly believe it wouldn't separate if you actually used 25% ewax in the recipe. Really? Perhaps that's a typo and you meant you used 5% in the recipe. If you really did use 25%, this might be why you are experiencing a waxy feel, thickness and the lotion isn't absorbing into your skin. I'm just guessing since I don't know what recipe you used.

eta: Also, freezing and thawing a few times isn't what I consider accurate testing.

 

[larita]

Yes that was a typo! I used 25% of the oil phase so I used about 5 %. Again Miss Hazel Do yo uhave any suggestions fo rthe waxiness problem and the lack of deep moisture. Those are what are bothering me most. Waiting to hear from you.

 

[Hazel]

I have been playing around with lotion for a few weeks now.

a charity function...is tomorrow Sunday, Monday and Tuesday.

I am not confident with my products just yet

sold me lots of stuff dirt cheap last month and thats when I started.

I added panthenol, guarhydroxypropyltrimmonium chloride, and allantoin and its no better. That doesn't make sense. when a person adds all the stuff that I added I should have had a world class cream but it is quite basic and underperforming in my estimation.

It is 11pm here and I want to sell these at the fundraiser tomorrow.

No, I don't know what to suggest since I don't know the percentages you used. I'm very concerned about some of the statements you made in your first post. I'm concerned you've only been doing this for a few weeks. I'm concerned that you bought supplies which possibly have have a limited shelf life or maybe even be older than recommended for the shelf life. Oils do go rancid in lotions. This is why you want to make sure you're using "new" oils so you're positive they'll have an extended shelf life after the customer buys a product. You also don't know how long a customer might keep the lotion. The lotion might be purchased, stored and not used for another 6 months. I'm concerned you're rushing into selling without testing over an extended period of time. The link I posted above talks about soap but it should be applied to any bath & body product. I'm concerned because I don't know what preservative you're using or if you're even using one. IMO, you don't need extra ingredients like the panthenol, etc to make a lovely lotion. I formulated a recipe with only oils, emulsifiers and distilled water which I thought was lovely and I was quite proud of myself for finally being able to do it. It's a balancing act and you have to understand what each oil will provide in the lotion. It took me months of tweaking the recipe not to mention the all the research I did previous to attempting it.

I recommend you don't make lotion to sell and do further research into lotion making.

 

[Genny]

You could up the water to 80%. I'd cut the glycerin, since that can make lotion thicker and a little sticky sometimes. I'd go with propylene glycol or sodium lactate at about 3%, which are a better humectants than glycerin and don't thicken up the lotion.

Almond oil is a medium-heavy oil, so that will be a contribute to your thick lotion as well. I'd go with a lighter oil, like FCO or borage. You've got cocoa butter in there which is a hard butter, so that too will add to the thickness. I'd drop that out comletely.

Since ewax NF usually already contains Cetearyl alcohol and Cetearyl alcohol contains Stearyl Alcohol & Cetyl alcohol, you're adding more emulsifier than needed.
I'd just stick with the ewax nf and if for a thinner lotion, I'd drop it down to 3%.

What are you adding at the cool down phase that comes to 5%? What preservative are you using?

I've never found any product of any kind to give me a "deep down" moisturizing feeling. I've made & bought many over the years. They can help draw in the moisture and keep it on your skin, but it won't go deep down.

But, also like Hazel said, I wouldn't recommend to anyone that they sell a recipe that they haven't thoroughly tested.

 

[larita]

Hi Genny! Thanks for the reply!To answer your question. I am trying your recomndation now to use 80% water to think it a bit. I may not have made myself clear in my post. I made the lotion/body butter without cetearyl alcohol or stearic acid. I used only e-wax nf with 70% and it became so thick that it would not come out of the jar upside down. I appreciate the fact that you say you have never found anything that moisturizes deep down, so maybe I am chasing the impossible with that one.Bbut what has me concerned and upset is that I sense that the cream is a bit waxy. Its not superwaxy but I dont want a waxy feel at all. I want more glide. I guess one of my main questions is can you get a non waxy feel using ewax as the emulsifier????? Also if I reduce the ewax to 3% as you suggested and my oil phase is 25% total including the wax. wouldn't that be too little ewax to ensure a stable long term emiulsion especially since I am not using any stand alone cetearyl alcohol or stearic acid in combination with the ewax? I dont know. What are your thoughts. I am struggling here. Anybody HELLLLLP!!!!!!!!

 

[Genny]

In my experience ewax kind of leaves a "slight waxy" feel.

I have to go, so I'm going to recommend a site to you
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com

All these questions you have is a reason, why good testing is needed before selling.

 

[Hazel]

I'm wondering about the guarhydroxypropyltrimmonium chloride. I thought it was only used in hair products but I could be wrong since I'm not an expert lotion maker. However, I'm fairly sure it also increases viscosity in products so it might be contributing to the thickness. I like Genny's suggestion about dropping the cocoa butter and trying different oils. I wouldn't recommend the borage for a regular lotion. It has a strong odor which is hard to cover up. It's not necessarily unpleasant, IMO. I used it in an unscented cream and a friend told me it smelled like raw potatoes. Although it's great for the skin, it's very expensive for a regular lotion.

I'd also like to know what preservative you're using. Preservatives should be chosen carefully because some ingredients can reduce their efficacy. Here are some links for more info.

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2 ... tives.html
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/p ... tives.html
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1020026/preservativechart.pdf

 

[larita]

Hi Hazel! Thanks for the links. I an already a follower of Susan's blog and that is how I have learned much of what little I know. And ,yes you were right I think the guarhydroxypropyltrimonium chloride was a bad, bad idea fro the lotion. It didn't add any benefit and I feel it took away significantly. The batch I used it in was my worst batch to date. I too think it should stay in haircare.

 

[larita]

I have another question. Can lotion/body butters be cooled down in the fridge so that they can be finished faster or will that disturb the process and cause problems later like separation etc. I would like to hear from someone who has ACTUALLY tried this. I am making many small batches today and I don't want to wait for each one to cool down completely before I start the next one. It would make it a lot easier for me in the long run is that method I can use. Please advise

 

[Genny]

Cooling lotion down in the fridge is going to give you added moisture to your lotion which is going to increase your chances of mold.