I need a Bastille-ish recipe, or do I???

[Mobjack Bay]

I would like to add another recipe to my collection that is lard and palm free and not heavy on OO. I have one recipe that uses butters, but haven’t made much of it due to the costs. I’m not quite ready to try soy wax. Does that leave me with a lowish OO Bastille type soap as my next option? Or something with RBO? I am still trying to stick with base oils I can buy locally due to storage issues. For the smallish quantities of oils I’m buying, the prices I’m paying locally are good and sometimes very good when I figure in the costs of shipping for most of the soaping suppliers. I do order Shea and would be willing to order something else if I need it for a good recipe and I can find it at a reasonable price in a smallish size. I have not found RBO locally, but have considered asking one of the local restaurants or caterers if they can get it at a good price.

Here’s a potential recipe I came up with:

OO 50%
Avocado oil 20%
CO 15%
Shea butter 10%
Castor oil 5% (not cheap locally, but I haven’t weaned myself off yet)

Any thoughts on how this soap would perform, any suggestions for improvements, etc. will be appreciated.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Of course it’s supposed to be Bastile (just like Castile), but my spellchecker doesn’t like it

 

[Obsidian]

Is there a particular reason you feel you need a Bastille? Do you like Castile at all?

I'm not a fan on high oleic recipes regardless of what oils are used. That being said, I much prefer sunflower or safflower over olive. Unfortunately, sunflower is crazy expensive here.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I’m using Zany’s Castile recipe and that’s working well for me. Mostly I want to try something without lard, palm or a lot of butters that’s not a Castile. I’m more flexible on butters, but they definitely cost more. Can I make a nice soap with mostly soft oils without olive in the mix? Or will I end up with a soap that’s too soft? I finally found HO Sunflower at a regional Walmart and the price was reasonable, so it’s an option. Avocado isn’t inexpensive, but it’s the one ingredient so far that I’ve let myself splurge on. I’m still trying to limit what I buy until I get to the point that I’m consistently making good soap.

 

[runnerchicki]

Your recipe is similar to a bastille recipe that I made a few weeks ago - except I used cocoa butter and no avocado oil. I imagine they would perform similarly. I used coconut milk for 1/2 the water hoping it would boost lather. It is currently producing a decent fluffy lather that has a creamy feel to it as I work it more. No slime at all. I video'd it ... are we able to post video clips?

ETA: You mentioned RBO - I have been using RBO as well, and I think it is a great substitute for some of the OO. For me, it is super cheap, and makes the bars slick and shiny. I haven't gone above 10% with it though.

 

[Dawni]

I like how RBO lathers more than olive oil lather. It's very obvious in the 70% RBO soap I made. I don't use olive oil at all in some soaps.

That being said, canola is a cheap alternative for me when I need a filler. I once made a high canola soap, to see how it lathers and time how fast it takes to DOS. I quite liked it in the shower.

When I do use olive oil I don't go over 30%. I can't explain why but that's the max it'll take. I've noticed olive oil doesn't like me much lol

Avocado makes nice soap. I've used it between 10-30% in different batches and they're all good. It costs more than cocoa butter for me, and I have to travel for it, but like you, it's a splurge I'm not willing to stop.

Oh, sweet almond I also like. I alternate it with the avocado.

I have made soap with only soft oils, but in our climate they sweat notoriously even fully cured. End up sticky, too, and don't last as long as the ones I added butters to. So if it were me, I'd up the avocado, shea and coconut (not much, I rarely end up with more than 11-15 cleansing numbers) and reduce my olive oil. But, that's personal preference.

Ehmm.. I'm not really sure I helped you at all lol

 

[cmzaha]

Avocado Oil will make a very hard bar of soap like OO, but really does not lather. I hate 100% OO soap and was trying to find a replacement. Point is you could up the Avocado but do compensate for the low lather with possibly upping up the CO to 17%.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Your recipe is similar to a bastille recipe that I made a few weeks ago - except I used cocoa butter and no avocado oil. I imagine they would perform similarly. I used coconut milk for 1/2 the water hoping it would boost lather. It is currently producing a decent fluffy lather that has a creamy feel to it as I work it more. No slime at all. I video'd it ... are we able to post video clips?

ETA: You mentioned RBO - I have been using RBO as well, and I think it is a great substitute for some of the OO. For me, it is super cheap, and makes the bars slick and shiny. I haven't gone above 10% with it though.

Do you order RBO online, or buy locally? Apparently it’s sometimes available at the Lowe’s in my area for using in Turkey fryers, but it’s seasonal. There’s an Asian market in my region, but that’s a good 45 minute drive with traffic.

 

[runnerchicki]

Do you order RBO online, or buy locally? Apparently it’s sometimes available at the Lowe’s in my area for using in Turkey fryers, but it’s seasonal. There’s an Asian market in my region, but that’s a good 45 minute drive with traffic.

I buy mine at Arizona Soap Supply - but they are local to me so I don't have to order soap supplies online much anymore. I know that they ship - but I have no idea how much it would cost to ship large quantities. Might be worth checking out though.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I buy mine at Arizona Soap Supply - but they are local to me so I don't have to order soap supplies online much anymore. I know that they ship - but I have no idea how much it would cost to ship large quantities. Might be worth checking out though.

Oh, how I wish there was a soap making supplier within a “Saturday drive” of where I live... I looked up Arizona Soap Supply and, WOO HOO, I’m going to be in Gilbert for the Christmas break. It won’t help me with my RBO issue, but it will be my big chance to go to a real soap making supply store.

 

[runnerchicki]

Oh, how I wish there was a soap making supplier within a “Saturday drive” of where I live... I looked up Arizona Soap Supply and, WOO HOO, I’m going to be in Gilbert for the Christmas break. It won’t help me with my RBO issue, but it will be my big chance to go to a real soap making supply store.

The shop has more than the website. Prepare yourself. It's a GREAT place!

 

[earlene]

I buy RBO from Riceland. Riceland makes the oil, so directly from the source seems like the best option for getting the longest shelf life out of my RBO.

But as you say, storage is the issue. When I order oils online, I feel the need to order large to make the order worthwhile.

As for making a hard mostly soft oils soap have you considered doing an HP with added stearic acid? You'd have to order stearic online, but it keeps forever (probably not, but it seems that way) and you don't really use much, so the cost over time is not that high, IMO.

Also, you could use smaller percentages of butters, thus saving a bit per bar costwise and still get a fairly hard bar of soap. I have used a recipe that includes only 12 % Shea, 6% Cocoa Butter and 2% Soy Wax (the lowest percentage of S.W. I've ever used in a recipe) and it turns out fairly nice. I first used it 2 or 3 months ago, so I don't have long term experience with the recipe, but it seemed okay, even though it had 30% CO. It's someone else's recipe and I have since tweaked it because personally I don't like high CO. IMO any recipe can be tweaked to get the desired end result that best satisfies our needs. But since I've been traveling and didn't bring any of it with me, I haven't tested the tweaked recipe much.

But then, it depends on your perception of an acceptable hardness for soap. My perception of an acceptable hardness for a bar of soap may be different from yours.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@earlene i just checked the price of 3 gallons of Riceland RBO from Amazon and it’s totally reasonable. The plus is that everything I order from Amazon is delivered to my front door, which is up 16 steps from the driveway.

I also printed out the oil profiles for OO and RBO using Soapcalc. I’m surprised at how high the Linoleic is for RBO (34). I usually try to keep that number low, but it sounds like some have used RBO at high percentages with no(?) DOS problems.

 

[Dawni]

@earlene i just checked the price of 3 gallons of Riceland RBO from Amazon and it’s totally reasonable. The plus is that everything I order from Amazon is delivered to my front door, which is up 16 steps from the driveway.

I also printed out the oil profiles for OO and RBO using Soapcalc. I’m surprised at how high the Linoleic is for RBO (34). I usually try to keep that number low, but it sounds like some have used RBO at high percentages with no(?) DOS problems.

I've used it up to 30% and so far so good but none of my soap that has it at that amount is over a year old. Coming up soon, yes, and no DOS so far. If I remember correctly this comes to less than 15 linoleic (that's my limit) depending on the other oils used.

There's also the 70% RBO which I'm keeping an eye on.. I didn't even look at the numbers for that haha

I have read of people use more, with no DOS. Weather conditions and storage play a big role in preventing DOS, and one of those factors are already against me from the get go lol

It's apparently very similar to olive oil but I like the bubbles of this more, and it's less drying. For some reason olive oil doesn't like me lol

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@penelopejane just shared this one oil bar experiment link on another thread. I do vaguely recall reading this page many months ago, but obviously I didn’t retain some of the key info! The RBO single oil soap did not develop DOS after a year, while DOS was observed after a year for some of the other oils that are commonly used as filler oils. The RBO and OO performed about the same.