I made soap shampoo that feels like syndet!!

[cmzaha]

Oh thanks a lot :-D Now I have to make another batch of cream soap which is not my favorite to make. Used up my 2 gallons of cream soap recently in my salt scrub I make with it. Normally I hate cream soap but it does have some redeeming factors for making some products. Now you just added another...:-D

 

[Susie]

I can do that, DeeAnna. I just washed my hair this morning, but give me a few days, and I will.

 

[Dorymae]

Thank you DeeAnna you confirmed the " non straw effect" even without acidic rinse even with a shave soap! When I read you were using a shave soap recipe I thought , oh no! However I'm glad it was no worse than your regular routine.

I'm encouraged by your result and have been preparing a new cream soap recipe specifically with hair in mind. I'll have it done tonight but unfortunately will need to wait at least a few months to try it out.

 

[DeeAnna]

If I were formulating cream soap for hair, at first blush, I'd drop the coconut oil down and maybe add castor. Is that the direction you're going, Dorymae? Cream soap is a high stearic/palmitic soap, so there's no getting around using a goodly % of lard, tallow, palm, high-stearic butters, or stearic acid. It was like I was washing my hair with thick whipped cream, and I'm still surprised it rinsed out so easily.

 

[DeeAnna]

Oh, oh, oh ... I forgot to add this thought -- Cream soap often has stearic added as the "supercream" (aka superfat) to thicken the soap. I have been wondering about using cetyl alcohol or other thickening agent instead of the stearic since stearic can be unpleasantly waxy. Cetyl has a nicer skin feel in lotions, IMO, so maybe it would be nice in cream soap too. Now that this discussion is going, it raised the thought in my mind about using BTMS instead. BTMS adds thickening to lotions as well as being an emulsifier, so perhaps it could be built directly into the cream soap formulation as the supercream. ???

 

[DeeAnna]

"... When I read you were using a shave soap recipe I thought , oh no! However I'm glad it was no worse than your regular routine. ..."

Yes, that was my thought too, but, hey, one must make sacrifices in the interests of science!

If you think about 75% tallow + 25% CO in light of it being a regular bar soap -- that's not too outrageous as a bath soap formulation. The main differences with this cream soap is it's made with a KOH-NaOH blend and a less concentrated lye solution than the usual bar soap. I didn't add extra stearic as supercream, but I did add extra glycerin.

I'm stopping with the Chatty Cathy thing now.

 

[Dorymae]

Yes, drop the coconut way down to maybe 8% I think for the main oil I'll use avocado, and yes castor at about 5%. For the stearic I was thinking of dropping it down a small amount (dropping it by 5-10%) in the actual recipe and adding glycerin as well. For the cream ingredients I am going to try some btms 50 and glycerin.

When it is done I'm going to first try the cream soap by itself, and then with added btms if needed.

 

[Dorymae]

Never stop the Chatty Cathy ! It gives me ideas, and for good or ill I learn so much!

 

[Dorymae]

"... When I read you were using a shave soap recipe I thought , oh no! However I'm glad it was no worse than your regular routine. ..."

Yes, that was my thought too, but, hey, one must make sacrifices in the interests of science!

If you think about 75% tallow + 25% CO in light of it being a regular bar soap -- that's not too outrageous as a bath soap formulation. The main differences with this cream soap is it's made with a KOH-NaOH blend and a less concentrated lye solution than the usual bar soap. I didn't add extra stearic as supercream, but I did add extra glycerin.

I'm stopping with the Chatty Cathy thing now.

Oh! Tallow, why didn't I think of that? Tallow and avocado that will be the base, of course I will still have the stearic but it may help since I am reducing it. It should also give some higher conditioning properties although as soap it won't be near what the conditioning wax will offer.

Now my head is swimming with ideas. Good thing I have my jot pad with me!:clap:

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

............For the record, my hair is fine, wavy, shoulder length -- and graying auburn, in case The Gent is wondering...............

Be still, my beating heart!

Considering the cream soap used, having it end up being similar to a normal routine is a success, isn't it?

This is very interesting - shampoo in one form or another is something interesting me (someone I know bought a bar that is at the very most 150g and paid 20€ for it!), but the whole ACV etc side of it puts me off. Intriguing ideas are coming.

 

[DeeAnna]

By definition, a conditioner for hair has to be "adsorbent" meaning it chemically bonds with the hair surface. BTMS or conditioning emulsifier is cationic (say cat-eye-on-ik), meaning it has a positive charge and can adsorb to hair and thus is a conditioner.

The other emusifier often used by home crafters is e-wax (brand name Polawax). E-wax and fats are not adsorbent (although there is something lurking in the back of my mind that coconut oil is able to bond with hair). Anyways, e-wax and most fats can only coat the hair shaft and provide temporary emollient and smoothing benefits.

 

[Susie]

OK, what I am gleaning from here is a recipe something like this:

Lard/Tallow 75%
Castor Oil 5%
CO 20%(or sub out some avacado or something)?
NaOH 20%
KOH 80%
Superfat 3%

Cream phase BTMS 50 1 gm in 58g glycerin?

 

[Dorymae]

OK, what I am gleaning from here is a recipe something like this:

Lard/Tallow 75%
Castor Oil 5%
CO 20%(or sub out some avacado or something)?
NaOH 20%
KOH 80%
Superfat 3%

Cream phase BTMS 50 1 gm in 58g glycerin?

I'm doing something like that, I'm thinking:

10% stearic
40% avocado
40% tallow
5% coconut
5% castor

 

[Susie]

Are you using the BTMS in the cream phase, or after the soap has rotted?

Sorry to be so needy, but I have never made cream soap, so I am still wrapping my mind around it.

 

[reinbeau]

This is very intriguing, I'm following closely. I too have been put off by the vinegar rinse stuff. I have shoulder length, fine, thin, blonde (well, it used to be) greying hair and I can't use anything too heavy, it flattens my hair down like a skullcap. Can't wait to see how your experiments work out.

 

[Dorymae]

I added the btms50 to the cream stage. When I first try it I will try it by itself. If that doesn't do, then I will mix in the btms50 and try again

 

[Susie]

Is this the correct BTMS?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KN9YDW4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[abc]

Is this the correct BTMS?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KN9YDW4/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

That's BTMS 25, you could try it but I think btms50 would be better. http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2012/06/question-how-to-use-btms-25-in-place-of.html?m=1

And

http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.com/2012/09/question-whats-difference-on-my-hair.html?m=1

 

[DeeAnna]

I haven't said much on this, but I'll add a caution:

Don't get too carried away with adding a lot of conditioning emulsifier (BTMS) to cream soap. It is relatively acidic compared to soap, and it will cause your soap to break down and separate. I can safely conclude it is NOT a good alternative to stearic acid for "supercreaming" (thickening) your cream soap.

And the result is awful on your hair.

Don't ask me how I know this.... :roll:

***

More useful articles from Susan:
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2015/02/a-few-thoughts-about-conditioners-for.html
http://swiftcraftymonkey.blogspot.ca/2014/10/wednesday-wonderings-whats-difference.html

 

[Susie]

It was a better price than the BTMS 50 I found on BB. I'll keep looking, thanks!