I made soap shampoo that feels like syndet!!

[Dorymae]

Okay I'm very excited. I just jumped out of the shower and I really want someone else to try this.

I made this with my cream soap base so you will need 6 oz of cream soap and a bit of btms-50 to try this.

First melt 1g of btms-50 in 58g of water, let this cool. Now mix it into your cream soap without beating. ( for this I put the cream soap mix in a large zipper bag and squished it for a minute of two)

That is it! Put it in a bottle and go try it! Lathers better than commercial shampoo, no dryness or straw feeling, I did not use any additional conditioner or acidic rinse and I combed through my wet hair ( my hair is 6inches past my shoulders) with no problem at all!

I think it goes without saying that your cream soap needs to be fully rotted as you are using this on your hair and want it to be mild.

 

[Susie]

*....searches for btms 50....grumbles about soapers who brag when they know you can't resist...*

 

[Dorymae]

*....searches for btms 50....grumbles about soapers who brag when they know you can't resist...*

You HAVE to try this Susie! Really you do. I've tried everything to try to make something I could wash my hair with without using syndet. Every time I'd get straw head, even with a vinegar wash. I was so exited when I got out of the shower I was dancing like a lunatic in a towel! ( yes my family was laughing - I didn't care!)

 

[Susie]

It seems I am about to learn how to make cream soap(thank you Lindy for the excellent tutorial), but I have a few questions...

1. How long did you let the cream soap rot?
2. What superfat was your cream soap at?
3. Did you use kaolin or any other ingredients besides oils/water/lyes in the cream soap?
4. Do you know of a cheap source of good BTMS 50 that I can buy small quantities of?

 

[DeeAnna]

It's not exactly the same as BTMS-50 but "conditioning emulsifier" is a generic alternative. It's easier for me to find than the name brand stuff.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

 

[Dorymae]

It seems I am about to learn how to make cream soap(thank you Lindy for the excellent tutorial), but I have a few questions...

1. How long did you let the cream soap rot?
2. What superfat was your cream soap at?
3. Did you use kaolin or any other ingredients besides oils/water/lyes in the cream soap?
4. Do you know of a cheap source of good BTMS 50 that I can buy small quantities of?

<sigh>. Ok I confess the cream soap I used was only 3 months old! Not even near finished. In my defense, I had the bucket up on my counter with a bucket of leave in conditioner ( btms-50 and water mix) when the idea struck. I thought what the heck I'll try it. I now have a mix with my older cream soap recipe in it so I'll wash my hair with it tomorrow. ( I wonder how it will be - the recipe I think is inferior but it is 8 months old now).

Anyway, I do add glycerin but nothing else and this in the creaming stage.

I'll take a look for the btms-50.

 

[Susie]

The cheapest I found for a small amount(I may be in denial that I need more than a couple of ounces) is BB, and amazingly, they are the cheapest on shipping. But I hesitate on ordering due to their recent(ish) reputation.

 

[Dorymae]

Yup Brambleberry was cheapest. Soapgoods might not be so bad. Here is what I found and where they are located:


http://www.soapgoods.com/BTMS-50-Incroquat-Behenyl-p-1804.html in GA 4oz $8.50

http://www.theherbarie.com/BTMS-50-Incroquat-Behenyl-TMS-50.html in SC 1oz $7.75

http://www.brambleberry.com/Btms-50-Conditioning-Emulsifier-P3623.aspx in WA 2oz $4.00


Oh I forgot to say. Superfat was 3 %

 

[dosco]

4. Do you know of a cheap source of good BTMS 50 that I can buy small quantities of?

According to the information on swiftcraftymonkey I suspect you could use some Crafter's Choice hair conditioner concentrate IF you add some additional glycerine as a humectant. If I understand things correctly (and it is very possible that I don't) this should get you in the ball park of BTMS-50 or -25 at a significantly lower price point ($2.95 for 2 ounces of conditioner concentrate vs. $7.95 for BTMS-50) assuming you can deal with WSP (lots of negative press here lately).

Regards-
Dave

 

[Dorymae]

Most conditioning emulsifier waxes are btms25. I'm not sure how it would work or how much you would need. Heck I don't even know why this works for me! I'm sure the PH hasn't changed. When I try to figure it I think it might be because of the conditioning valve but really it's a tiny amount of the whole. Something like .5% of the recipe.

 

[dosco]

DeeAnna:
Is there a technical explanation for this?

Dorymae appears to have made something that incorporates both soap (the cream soap) and conditioner (BTMS-50) into one product.

Assuming the cream soap is high in pH, is there something about the excess stearic acid combined with the conditioning effects of BTMS-50 that results in the outcome Dorymae is experiencing?

Just wondering.

-Dave

 

[Susie]

I don't know, but anything that adds moisture to my dry hair without being a syndet/silicone will be wonderful.

 

[dosco]

I don't know, but anything that adds moisture to my dry hair without being a syndet/silicone will be wonderful.

The info on swiftcraftymonkey about conditioner (among other things) is pretty thorough. If you haven't read it, I suggest you take a look.

-Dave

 

[Susie]

I appreciate the suggestion! I do read lots of her blogs. I am still kind of hesitant about making lotion/conditioner, so I am not quite up to her level of instruction on those. I can actually buy "all natural"(silicone free) conditioner for a reasonable price, so I don't quite have the need for that yet like I do shampoo. I react to the shampoo made by the same people for some strange reason.

I use shampoo bars I make myself with a vinegar/water rinse before the conditioner. But I can still use any moisture I can add to my hair. Curly hair in the humid deep south is a hot mess most days.

 

[Dahila]

It is an awesome emulsifier, I love it. It is good for face lotion, very conditioning and for hair also. I pay 19.99 CAD for 224 grams, plus shipping. It is very expensive. I found only one place in Canada that carry it. It is awesome, I love it

 

[DeeAnna]

Don't have any grand thoughts, folks. I've got some cream soap, some homemade conditioner, just plain conditioning emulsifier (the stuff that's in my homemade conditioner), and a head of hair that needs to be washed. I'll give it a go and see what I think.

 

[lpstephy85]

MUST MAKE CREAM SOAP!!!!!! :twisted:

 

[Susie]

Waiting for DeeAnna's results...

 

[Dorymae]

Me too, I can't wait to see if it is something in my cream soap recipe that just works for me or if this is a viable way (with any cream soap) to make a decent soap shampoo! Either way I'm excited it worked for me, I have been looking and trying different things for a long time! Keeping my fingers crossed it will work you all of you too!

 

[DeeAnna]

Okay, first trial.

My cream soap is intended to be a shave soap recipe. It's the lard equivalent of a shave soap recipe from a 1912 article that called for 75% tallow and 25% coconut oil. Since I don't have tallow, I created a lard-stearic-CO dupe of tallow and used that instead with an added 25% CO. The lye is 20% NaOH, 80% KOH. Superfat at 3% and lye solution concentration is 25%, just like a regular LS recipe.

Stearic Acid 15.0%
Coconut Oil 76° 31.0%
Lard 54.0%

This recipe is rather more cleansing than I would normally formulate as a bathing or shampoo soap, but it's the only cream soap I have at the moment.

I added a dab of my homemade conditioner to a small amount of this soap, mixed the two in my palms, and washed hair with the mixture. The high stearic soap turned my hair into a huge mop of dense shaving cream lather -- pretty funny. But it rinsed cleanly and easily. I did not add any extra conditioner after shampooing.

After towel drying, combing out my wet hair was about the same as combing it out after my usual shampoo routine. Hair is really fluffy now that it's dry, but the drier ends feel slick and smooth, not overly rough or dry. (For the record, my hair is fine, wavy, shoulder length -- and graying auburn, in case The Gent is wondering.)

I can't say it's done anything super incredibly wonderful to my hair, but my hair is certainly manageable and feels nice. I was really wondering how easily the cream soap would rinse out, and it did so surprisingly easily. I think the proof of the pudding will be to use this shampoo technique for a week or two and see how my hair responds over time.

Dorymae -- I'm sorry I don't have miraculous results to report, but today's experiment IS just my rough first go at your idea. I'll keep trying.

Susie -- An idea for you to try with your LS. I've been using my diluted LS as shampoo lately. My hair doesn't seem to get quite as dry with a LS as it does with an mild shampoo bar made with 100% NaOH, so I've been wondering if the KOH is a key difference. Try just the diluted LS as your shampoo and see how that goes. Then add some of your usual conditioner to the LS, per Dorymae's idea, and see how your hair responds.