I failed my soap twice in 2 days

[bobbychandra]

I'm sorry for my bad english. I'm from indonesia. I speak in indonesia n javanese everyday.

Yesterday i made 2 batch of soap. Its my first time using sodium lactate on my soap. I'm using the same formula but different addictive (fragrance, mica and natural powder) for the both soap
Lye conct. 25% (i love to make fancy soap so i want everything goes so slow) i just add 1% sodium lactate because i just want to have harder soap.

These green soap is succesfull as usual.. but the another one

This blue soap is crumble even i'm not yet pouring that soap to the mould.. its oily too and takes time so long to harden. Even its hard yet its still so oily... I failed make layers soap because the texture so misbehave.

I suspect the sodium lactate first but the another one is good after i unmold it 24 hours later. This is the succesfull soap one

Then this is the another one which failed. Its very very hard in the middle but so mushy in the edge

Then i found another tread in this group that talk about clumpy NaOH.. yess.. there is clumpy NaOH that i use. Before i read that tread, I think its ok as far as i mix it well to the water.

So the next day i made another 2 batch of soap again.. one of the soap i'm using the exactly same formula n addictive with the failed soap i've made yesterday but using the good NaOH. Then the soap is FAILED AGAIN with the same character!!
I made another one using same formula but different addictive and its fine... I even could make so much layer easily..

Now i realize that my bad NaOH is not the only suspect but the fragrance oil.. the failed yesterday using the same fragrance with the failed soap this day... I check the Ph of the both soap i've made yesterday. The good one is 8 to 9 but the failed one is 10. So sad since the olive oil so expensive in indonesia..

The fragrance oil make my soap crumble but it is a fake trace too that makes me pouring the soap to the mould before its tracing perfectfully. The oil and lye solution may not mix well yet. that's why it resulting an very oily soap.

 

[bobbychandra]

My recipe for all of the soap i told:
250g coconut oil
175g olive oil
75g palm oil

Lye concentration 25%
NaOH 76g water 228g

Sodium lactate about 1% of oil weight..

Most of my recipe using 25% to 30% lye concentration because i love slow work, i want fancy soap so everything must be slow.. i never got problem like i told above before i used sweet vanila as fragrance for my fancy soap. Its labelled as medium trace but i dont know, maybe there are fragraces which have wild effect on the soap. Sometimes i use accelerate trace fragrances but they didnt make my soap crumble. Just trace faster not crumble..

 

[hanaherrera]

My recipe for all of the soap i told:
250g coconut oil
175g olive oil
75g palm oil

Lye concentration 25%
NaOH 76g water 228g

Sodium lactate about 1% of oil weight..

Most of my recipe using 25% to 30% lye concentration because i love slow work, i want fancy soap so everything must be slow.. i never got problem like i told above before i used sweet vanila as fragrance for my fancy soap. Its labelled as medium trace but i dont know, maybe there are fragraces which have wild effect on the soap. Sometimes i use accelerate trace fragrances but they didnt make my soap crumble. Just trace faster not crumble..

When I first used sodium lactate, I thought that it was culprit for an almost failed batch. It turned out that I hadn't blended enough because I was in a rush to pour my batter in the mold since it had accelerated due to a fragrance and also because I had used oils and butters that were fast moving. I use sodium lactate only at a rate of 1 tsp for every pound of oil. Sometimes I just use 1 tsp for a kilogram.

Maybe do a batch like say 500g first and do an experiment and get to feel how your batter will behave when you add just a teaspoon or half a teaspoon for 500g... Add the sodium lactate to your lye solution when it is slightly cooler. I don't know how others do theirs but that's how I work with sodium lactate and my batches are fine. Hope this'll help. I can't say much about the rest of your batch's situation though... Like you, I'm a novice soap maker, still learning the beauty and science of this craft cheers!

 

[hanaherrera]

I also noticed that a large portion of your oils is coconut oil. You also have palm oil in there. Maybe you don't need the sodium lactate since your soap will be hard anyway due to the hard oils in your recipe...

You might also want to hold back on your fragrance for a while, that might be another variable that's making your batch curdle?

If you don't mind my asking, what were your additives?

 

[bobbychandra]

I also noticed that a large portion of your oils is coconut oil. You also have palm oil in there. Maybe you don't need the sodium lactate since your soap will be hard anyway due to the hard oils in your recipe...

You might also want to hold back on your fragrance for a while, that might be another variable that's making your batch curdle?

If you don't mind my asking, what were your additives?

Thank you for replying my tread ..
.
I add kaolin clay 1 or 2 tbs.. i add it on the oil before i mix them with lye solution. I dont know, but its like habit. Most of my soap had kaolin clay on them..

I add mica powder as colorant. I add them when the soap light trace. I dont mix mica with oil first because i scare it would add more oil on the batch then affect on my soap. For the black color i use active charcoal.. its cheaper than mica, and its as black as mica colorant...

Then i add fragrance.. ideally everybody add 2-4% fragrance but i only add 2% from the total weight. So since i made only 500gram per batch i only add 10 grams of fragrance.. some of accelerate trace fragrance makes me scare so i add it not much.. i add it when it was almost light trace...

 

[hanaherrera]

I suppose, as most have pointed out, it's your sodium hydroxide then...

 

[bobbychandra]

I suppose, as most have pointed out, it's your sodium hydroxide then...

I dont know.. but my NaOH look like inconsistent on texture. There are some clumpy there. But the failed soap this day not using the clumpy NaOH. Most of my soap done beautifully exept the soap i made yesterday and this day. Maybe i buy the old stock so the quality is inconsistent

 

[hanaherrera]

you can identify the culprit in that batch by eliminating ingredients that you suspect might be causing that misbehavior. you can start with your fragrance oil.

 

[Michelle0803]

Both the kaolin clay and activated charcoal will accelerate trace. Try the soap without fragrance and without the kaolin clay.

I have had clumpy lye before and I put it in a bowl and carefully smashed the lumps out with a spatula before adding to my water.

 

[bobbychandra]

Both the kaolin clay and activated charcoal will accelerate trace. Try the soap without fragrance and without the kaolin clay.

I have had clumpy lye before and I put it in a bowl and carefully smashed the lumps out with a spatula before adding to my water.

OMG.. i already know kaolin clay accelerate trace too..
Btw, clumpy lye still can be used, right?

 

[Catscankim]

Well, since you made another batch with a different batch of lye, I'm going to rule that out and go with the fragrance oil. But it's just a guess. Did you buy it from a soap supplier? Are you following the fo usage rate? I don't think sodium lactate will do that to your soap either, unless you went seriously overboard with it, but even then I don't know what that does to soap in the end product. I'm going to guess it will be the opposite of what you have there.

Leave it out to cure and see what happens. The oily stuff might absorb back into the soap, but in my experience, it makes for a crumbly and ashy soap.

Give it a week and then zap test it. I'm not a rebatcher, so I can't give advice on that, but it might be worth a try if it still isn't behaving.

Welcome to the forum!

 

[bobbychandra]

Well, since you made another batch with a different batch of lye, I'm going to rule that out and go with the fragrance oil. But it's just a guess. Did you buy it from a soap supplier? Are you following the fo usage rate? I don't think sodium lactate will do that to your soap either, unless you went seriously overboard with it, but even then I don't know what that does to soap in the end product. I'm going to guess it will be the opposite of what you have there.

Leave it out to cure and see what happens. The oily stuff might absorb back into the soap, but in my experience, it makes for a crumbly and ashy soap.

Give it a week and then zap test it. I'm not a rebatcher, so I can't give advice on that, but it might be worth a try if it still isn't behaving.

Welcome to the forum!

Yes.. i buy it from soap supplier. There are not many soap supplier in indonesia. This shop that i buy the fragrance is the only shop which adding the information about trace effect to the soap (for this misbehave fragrance they labeling it as medium trace). There are no much option here since most of fragrance oil for soap here is imported from another country.
The second failed soap is hardening yet and the oil is not as much as the first because i pouring it back to to bowl then i mixing it again. I test the ph 2 hours ago and its 9.. i hope its not a total failure...
Thank you.. i think i could learn so much from this grup...

 

[melinda48]

Thank you for replying my tread ..
.
I add kaolin clay 1 or 2 tbs.. i add it on the oil before i mix them with lye solution. I dont know, but its like habit. Most of my soap had kaolin clay on them..

I add mica powder as colorant. I add them when the soap light trace. I dont mix mica with oil first because i scare it would add more oil on the batch then affect on my soap. For the black color i use active charcoal.. its cheaper than mica, and its as black as mica colorant...

Then i add fragrance.. ideally everybody add 2-4% fragrance but i only add 2% from the total weight. So since i made only 500gram per batch i only add 10 grams of fragrance.. some of accelerate trace fragrance makes me scare so i add it not much.. i add it when it was almost light trace...

Perhaps try a batch without kaolin clay. Try black iron oxide instead of activated charcoal (pre-mix with enough oil to make smooth) (use a tablespoon of oil from the olive oil in your recipe; it will not affect anything). I would eliminate the fragrance oil for an experimental batch. Please double check your fragrance to insure it is soap safe.

 

[BWt]

Agree with @Catscankim on waiting and then rebatching. Very easy oven method for rebatching on this site from @Zany_in_CO.

 

[Georgeandstella]

Perhaps try a batch without kaolin clay. Try black iron oxide instead of activated charcoal (pre-mix with enough oil to make smooth) (use a tablespoon of oil from the olive oil in your recipe; it will not affect anything). I would eliminate the fragrance oil for an experimental batch. Please double check your fragrance to insure it is soap safe.

Hi, newbie here, thank you for this advice, I’ve been wondering about mixing colorants with oils also-to clarify, do you subtract the oils (1Tbs) that you mix your colorant with from the batch oil weight? And do you add back the colorant (and oil) after trace? Thank you

 

[Michelle0803]

My recipe for all of the soap i told:
250g coconut oil
175g olive oil
75g palm oil

Lye concentration 25%
NaOH 76g water 228g

Sodium lactate about 1% of oil weight..

Most of my recipe using 25% to 30% lye concentration because i love slow work, i want fancy soap so everything must be slow.. i never got problem like i told above before i used sweet vanila as fragrance for my fancy soap. Its labelled as medium trace but i dont know, maybe there are fragraces which have wild effect on the soap. Sometimes i use accelerate trace fragrances but they didnt make my soap crumble. Just trace faster not crumble..

It is possible that the combination of the kaolin clay and activated charcoal along with the fragrance oil labeled "medium trace" is the culprit. I am unsure how your supplier labels fragrance oils but I have seen fragrance oils in the U.S. labeled as "accelerates trace". When I am working with kaolin, activated charcoal and a fragrance oil that can accelerate trace I typically reduce the amount of kaolin clay that I use, mix my activated charcoal in some of my liquid oil and slowly add after adding my lye solution. This has given me more control over trace. Can you try your recipe without the kaolin and activated charcoal, just using the fragrance oil and see how it behaves?

 

[Michelle0803]

Hi, newbie here, thank you for this advice, I’ve been wondering about mixing colorants with oils also-to clarify, do you subtract the oils (1Tbs) that you mix your colorant with from the batch oil weight? And do you add back the colorant (and oil) after trace? Thank you , but what I have found to work successfully for me is to measure out my liquid oils, then take the oil from there to mix my micas or activated charcoal. Doing it this way I do not have to do any extra calculations. I've been doing it this way for years and have not had any issues.

Welcome to the forum!

I have found that if I weigh out my liquid oils and then take the needed oil from there to mix with my mica that I do not have to recalculate anything. I've been doing it this way for years and have not had any issues.

If I am making a soap with multiple colors, I will divide out the soap that I need for each color after it has reached a light trace, then add the oil & mica mix and stir it back in. If I think it needs another quick stick blend, then I will do that. I always work my colors from lightest to darkest.

 

[Georgeandstella]

Welcome to the forum!

I have found that if I weigh out my liquid oils and then take the needed oil from there to mix with my mica that I do not have to recalculate anything. I've been doing it this way for years and have not had any issues.

If I am making a soap with multiple colors, I will divide out the soap that I need for each color after it has reached a light trace, then add the oil & mica mix and stir it back in. If I think it needs another quick stick blend, then I will do that. I always work my colors from lightest to darkest.

Thank you so much! I have googled this question many ways and couldn’t find the answer, I appreciate the clarification

 

[Michelle0803]

Thank you so much! I have googled this question many ways and couldn’t find the answer, I appreciate the clarification

You are very welcome.

 

[Savage Daughter]

OMG.. i already know kaolin clay accelerate trace too..
Btw, clumpy lye still can be used, right?

Chandra? Yes, it would be very difficult to get soap making supplies in most parts of Indonesian, I think. That's why I stopped making soap when I moved there. Although there is a lot of coconut & palm oil there LOL

My first thought was also the fact that Indonesia probably still doesn't have the same quality fragrance oils as many other countries. When I was still there, nobody was making soap except for one or two foreigners in Bali.

I seem to remember hearing on a YouTube channel - a soap maker - that when they use charcoal they do experience accelerated trace, much like with kaolin. I haven't made a batch of soap using charcoal for many years so I haven't tested this theory out myself, but for sure, kaolin can make things crazy. I have learned to use more water when using clays. Like a 2.4:1 water : lye ratio. I find the ratios make more sense to me than percentages with soap making. It DOES help. My soap batter stays fluid longer.

Personally, I would try using more water.

Where did you study English? I was teaching in Jakarta for 7 years but also lived in Bali, Lombok & on Gili Trawangan.