Hello! I'd love some advice from you all. I'm looking to make a recipe that's got a lot of longevity, hardness, and cleansing properties. From what I understand oils with high palmitic are a good way to get there. How can I also get a higher cleansing bar? I've been thinking about doing a 50/50 CO/PO batch but I'm not sure what the SF should be. That brings me to another question, how do you know the SF value when creating recipes. I've been going off of others recipes but I don't really understand the process of deciding the SF value. Any advice? Thanks in advance!
I could use some advice on a recipe.
- Thread starter thetoe
- Start date
Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
artemis
Mostly Harmless
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2016
- Messages
- 2,685
- Reaction score
- 4,636
Just wondering:
Why do you want to increase the cleansing?
Why do you want to increase the cleansing?
What are you using the soap for? Usually the really strong cleansing soaps are used for dishes or laundry.
Most people want longevity and hardness, so you're not alone there. For those you need to have a high palmitic/stearic (combined) number. Do you use a soap calculator? That will help you build your recipe.
High cleansing also means very drying. The more CO you use the more cleansing it will be, but it will also strip your skin of oils and make it feel 'tight' and dry after using. Most people would rarely use it at over 25% of the recipe - maybe 30% at a pinch. I use CO at 20% and even that is quite high compared to a lot of soapers.
I found this article useful when i was starting out: https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/blog/the-most-popular-fatty-acid-profiles-in-soapmaking/
High cleansing also means very drying. The more CO you use the more cleansing it will be, but it will also strip your skin of oils and make it feel 'tight' and dry after using. Most people would rarely use it at over 25% of the recipe - maybe 30% at a pinch. I use CO at 20% and even that is quite high compared to a lot of soapers.
I found this article useful when i was starting out: https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/blog/the-most-popular-fatty-acid-profiles-in-soapmaking/
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2007
- Messages
- 18,008
- Reaction score
- 8,518
I always include Castor oil in my recipes. Here is a recipe that I came up with using Soapmaking Friend. This should give you a hard bar with bubbly and creamy lather. The longevity number isn't bad either.
8% Castor Oil
20% Coconut Oil
25% Palm Oil
37% Rice Bran Oil
10% Soy Wax
8% Castor Oil
20% Coconut Oil
25% Palm Oil
37% Rice Bran Oil
10% Soy Wax
What's your SF value on that one? Also, how do you know how much to SF a recipe?I always include Castor oil in my recipes. Here is a recipe that I came up with using Soapmaking Friend. This should give you a hard bar with bubbly and creamy lather. The longevity number isn't bad either.
8% Castor Oil
20% Coconut Oil
25% Palm Oil
37% Rice Bran Oil
10% Soy Wax
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2007
- Messages
- 18,008
- Reaction score
- 8,518
I usually go with 5% superfat. A recipe that uses a very high percentage of coconut oil needs a much higher superfat.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2007
- Messages
- 18,008
- Reaction score
- 8,518
5% is a commonly used superfat percentage, but it can range from 1-20%. The higher the percentage of stripping oils used in a recipe, the higher the superfat percentage. For instance a bar that has a high percentage of coconut oil should have a higher superfat percentage. On the other hand, too high a superfat percentage can result in a softer bar with less lather.
Is it all guesswork as far as what percentage to use or is there a formula or guideline? It seems like once you get above 20% CO the suggestions from other members goes up as far as SF%. I'm trying to figure out a good starting point for SF% when using high amounts of CO. Also, what if there are other oils/butters. Example: 50% CO 50% Lard? Will the lard make up for the high cleansing without a high SF %?
Last edited:
artemis
Mostly Harmless
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2016
- Messages
- 2,685
- Reaction score
- 4,636
Not guesswork, but trial and error. Your skin may not like the same superfat mine prefers.
- Joined
- Oct 14, 2007
- Messages
- 18,008
- Reaction score
- 8,518
Most lye calculating software automatically show a 5% superfat. You can change that manually. The coconut oil will give you a high cleaning number. Use Soapmaking Friend to devise your recipes. It will show you how high the cleansing numbers, hardness, longevity etc.
If you are using 50% CO I would probably aim for about 10% superfat. But then I'm not sure I'd want a high superfat with lard in the recipe ( but I've never used lard so you may need to ask others about that).
My recipes uses 20% CO and I have recently reduced my superfat down to 2 or 3 percent as a personal preference.
A general guide for 'sailor's soap' which is 90 - 100% CO is 20% superfat.
My recipes uses 20% CO and I have recently reduced my superfat down to 2 or 3 percent as a personal preference.
A general guide for 'sailor's soap' which is 90 - 100% CO is 20% superfat.
You might find that the high co also reduces your longevity. Sodium cocoate bubbles well because it's very soluble. If you're looking for a hard but long lasting bar, you might be better off either going all out for a salt bar, or subbing out some co for less soluble hard oil like lard and/or tallow
I tried Obsidian's salt bar recipe last night (CO 80%/OO 20%, SF20%, 50% salt) so we'll see how that goes as far as longevity.
I superfat at 3%. Don't know why, just always have.
