HP vs. CP liquid soap, dilution questions

[magali]

I made it using irisslass instruction, now it's a paste. Can't wait to dilute it. Kinda nervous because I made cpls before using water and it was really opaque like milk. The culprit could be either the SL or distilled water. I hope I can get this batch clear after dilution. I'll try to use poly80 too to mix the eo/fo.

 

[DeeAnna]

Before you add scent, be sure to test it in a small sample of LS to see how the soap reacts. Some fragrances will thin soap, some will thicken it. Some fragrances will mix in just fine on their own, and some will not. A quick test can save you some grief.

I have not had to use PS80 to get my FOs and EOs to stay mixed with my diluted liquid soap ... so far. If I find a scent someday that won't stay properly mixed, Irish Lass has given me the know-how to fix it, and I sincerely appreciate her generosity in sharing this information.

 

[Sapo]

Thanks Deanna and Zany for the comment on cold process/only initial heating LS with using just water.
One more question - after how much time do you experience full saponification when using only water and no heat?

And ditto on the "do test batches of various essential oils". Some tests may take weeks, mind you. I made 6 different soaps recently, 6 different essential oils - large batches (hasty hasty...). 4 turned out good, but the blood orange EO and ylang ylang EO instantly turned my diluted soap into a brick. Nothing un-salvagable, mind you, just needed to carefully add more dilution water, which was an added hassle.

What WAS a deal breaker is the fact that blood orange EO (or more likely an individual component?) later separated out and now floats on top as a white streak. This happened after a week or two of sitting in the closet.

 

[Susie]

That happens. I have a batch of LS right now with white floating on the top. It was scented with an EO I have used before from a previous bottle. I don't know what the manufacturer changed, but it was something. This is exactly why you should do a test batch with every scent. It need not be much, but that one small step can save a whole batch from being white.

 

[biarine]

I personally see no benefit to HPing my liquid soap to the paste stage. To me, it's a needless waste of my time and energy/electricity. Other folks can certainly do it if it floats their boat, but my philosophy is, "Why go to the trouble if it will saponify just fine without the added heat and extra attention needed?". I'm not saying my way is the best way for all, but it is most certainly the best way for me, a lass who tends to gravitate towards finding less time-consuming, less fussy ways of doing things.

I just whisk or stick-blend off-heat to the emulsification stage/Lawrence Welk stage, cover my pot and walk away. I have plenty of other things I can find to occupy my time than needlessly hovering over a hot pot for a few hours when I don't have to.

Re: dilution: I'm partial to Carrie's method (3bees~1flower from the Dish), which is the canning jar method. Everything is contained in a sealed environment so that evaporation is kept to the barest minimum, and I am better able to see what is going on as often as I like from the top to the bottom clarity-wise/viscosity-wise without ever un-screwing the lid and causing needless evaporation- by just lifting the jar out of the pot of boiling water and tilting it/swirling it.

In comparison, if I were diluting in a crockpot, the only way I would be able to judge how things were progressing throughout the dilution would be to lift the lid and give things a stir, which would cause evaporation over a large surface area every time I decided I wanted to check on things.... which increases the potential of negatively effecting the overall consistency of my finished soap.


IrishLass

I don't want to be pain IrishLass but I need to ask if I can use 100 % water because I can't use glycerin method because we don't have a cooking vent or fan to extract the fume. I like your method less fuzz and more easy.

 

[BattleGnome]

I don't want to be pain IrishLass but I need to ask if I can use 100 % water because I can't use glycerin method because we don't have a cooking vent or fan to extract the fume. I like your method less fuzz and more easy.

You can use water (or alternate liquids). I think the glycerin is faster but not sciencey enough to know for sure. The only time I've made paste was with 100% water, I plan to make more soon with glycerin to see the difference

 

[Susie]

You can use plain water. It will take a longer time to get to emulsion, but you can do it.

However, if you mix the KOH with water then add the glycerin to the oils, you do not get the fumes you would if you mixed the KOH with the glycerin. You get no more fumes than you would making CP bar soap.

 

[biarine]

You can use plain water. It will take a longer time to get to emulsion, but you can do it.

However, if you mix the KOH with water then add the glycerin to the oils, you do not get the fumes you would if you mixed the KOH with the glycerin. You get no more fumes than you would making CP bar soap.

Oh thank you Susie, I will try. Because sometimes I am tired cooking for 3 to 4 hours.

 

[Susie]

No cooking needed. It is like making CP bar soap, only you get it to emulsion, then wait for it to do its own cooking.

 

[biarine]

No cooking needed. It is like making CP bar soap, only you get it to emulsion, then wait for it to do its own cooking.

How long it will take before it's done? Sorry as a newbie I don't really know, I am still learningx

 

[DeeAnna]

...I need to ask if I can use 100 % water because I can't use glycerin method because we don't have a cooking vent or fan to extract the fume. I like your method less fuzz and more easy.

I'm not Irish Lass, obviously. That said, you might re-read post 13 above if you'd like my answer about whether one can make this soap with only water.

If you use the part-glycerin method where you dissolve the KOH in water, you do not need any more ventilation than you would normally use for any other type of soap.

 

[biarine]

I'm not Irish Lass, obviously. That said, you might re-read post 13 above if you'd like my answer about whether one can make this soap with only water.



If you use the part-glycerin method where you dissolve the KOH in water, you do not need any more ventilation than you would normally use for any other type of soap.

Thank you DeeAnna.

 

[DeeAnna]

One more question - after how much time do you experience full saponification when using only water and no heat?

The time can vary.

When I made the two batches I describe in my first post in this thread, it took under an hour from the time I mixed the lye and fats for both batches to be zap free.

If you make an all-water LS recipe and start it at a lower temperature -- say 100 to 120 deg F (40-50 C), I'd wait overnight to a day and then test. It's about the same as making NaOH soap if you start with cold lye and room temperature fats -- a batch made like this can take a day to a few days to be zap free.

 

[IrishLass]

I don't want to be pain IrishLass but I need to ask if I can use 100 % water because I can't use glycerin method because we don't have a cooking vent or fan to extract the fume. I like your method less fuzz and more easy.

You are not a pain.

I'm not sure if you saw one of the edits (in red) that I added to my post in the Soapmaking 101 thread explaining how I make my glycerin liquid soap, but I mix my KOH differently nowadays. Instead of cooking the KOH and glycerin together until the KOH dissolves, I dissolve the KOH in an equal amount of room temp. distilled water by weight- which takes only about a minute, if that- then I add my regular recipe amount of glycerin (at room temp) to the solution before adding to my melted oils/fats. It's so much easier and even less fussy.


IrishLass

 

[Susie]

How long it will take before it's done? Sorry as a newbie I don't really know, I am still learningx

^What DeeAnna said! I use 1/3 water to 2/3 glycerin for my water amount. Or 1:1, depending on my mood. They do not take long. Usually by the time I clean my kitchen up (20-30 minutes barring interruptions), I have gel and proceed to dilution.

 

[biarine]

^What DeeAnna said! I use 1/3 water to 2/3 glycerin for my water amount. Or 1:1, depending on my mood. They do not take long. Usually by the time I clean my kitchen up (20-30 minutes barring interruptions), I have gel and proceed to dilution.

How thank you Susie. I will try.

You are not a pain.

I'm not sure if you saw one of the edits (in red) that I added to my post in the Soapmaking 101 thread explaining how I make my glycerin liquid soap, but I mix my KOH differently nowadays. Instead of cooking the KOH and glycerin together until the KOH dissolves, I dissolve the KOH in an equal amount of room temp. distilled water by weight- which takes only about a minute, if that- then I add my regular recipe amount of glycerin (at room temp) to the solution before adding to my melted oils/fats. It's so much easier and even less fussy.


IrishLass

Thank you IrishLass, I can't wait to try your method.

 

[magali]

I'm diluting my paste at the moment using irishlass canning method but reduced the water to 50:50. It's still a bit runny for my liking. If I want to add thickener (xantham gum) and honey, when they should be added? But I'm not sure if real honey is a good idea though, maybe I'll use honey extract.

 

[Susie]

No honey. You never add anything after the paste is made that is food for bacteria.

 

[DeeAnna]

If by "honey extract" you mean a fragrance oil or something like that, sure, go for it.

If "honey extract" is something like dehydrated honey, it's still honey and Susie's advice still applies. Adding sugars to diluted liquid soap is a bad idea.

I don't have any suggestions for using xanthan gum. I recall some people say it can be tricky to work with, but I don't remember why.

 

[biarine]

I used glycerin but I was thinking of using water as well.
It should work... I can't see why it shouldn't.
It might take a bit longer to saponify though.

I used water method just now and leave it for 4 hours doing my garden and When back and check it no zap and fully jelled. I love this method , first I don't waste my electricity and second I can do something else without checking every 30 minutes.

I wanted to ask if Morrocan RHASSOUL CLAY can make a liquid soap cloudy? I am very adventurous today I make a liquid soap for my husband aunt, she can't have coconut or palm oil because she's allergic to it. Zap free but it's cloudy

Here's my recipe
380 grams avocado
300 olive oil
100 castor oil
100 sweet almond
150 wheatgerm oil
1 teaspoon Morrocan RHASSOUL CLAY
1 teaspoon sugar
627 grams water
209 grams potassium
this is the test.