gemsupthepoley
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Sorry, just questions on the run!!! I've got it now and I'll report back with my findings, all hopefully good after your extensive testing. Many thanks once again.
HP shave soap Q's, wet shavers in the house.
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My latest shaving soaps have been very similar to what Lee has documented here. However, I have been combining the lye with the oils first, and then when they are thoroughly mixed, I add the stearic acid. It seems to make for a more homogenous end product in my opinion.
gemsupthepoley
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That's what I thought I read elsewhere on a thread. I'm up for the easy all in one method but I'm sure I'll be doing more than one batch so will probably try both.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
I thought I'd read that. I struggle with that (understanding, not arguing). How does saponifying one oil and then adding another lead to a more homogenous soap than mixing all of them up front?
The only "separation" I get is if something dries on the side during the cook and ends up not being as hydrated. That goes away after a little aging.
"...How does saponifying one oil and then adding another lead to a more homogenous soap than mixing all of them up front?..."
This is my twist on the process. To be clear, it's not adding fats in two steps ... it's starting the saponification with fat and following up with fatty acid. This method allows me to mix the fats and other ingredients and bring them to a clear trace in a civilized way. Then the stearic can do what it wants at a point when I know everything else is ready for near-instant mashed potatoes. But clearly YMMV applies here. I have no righteous torch to bear for this particular method; it's just what I like to do.
That said, this method does have its uses with saponifying just fats. I sometimes start the saponification with the solid fats and all of the lye, bring this partial batter to a light trace, and then add the liquid fats. This definitely slows the development of trace if more time is needed for fancy work.
This is my twist on the process. To be clear, it's not adding fats in two steps ... it's starting the saponification with fat and following up with fatty acid. This method allows me to mix the fats and other ingredients and bring them to a clear trace in a civilized way. Then the stearic can do what it wants at a point when I know everything else is ready for near-instant mashed potatoes. But clearly YMMV applies here. I have no righteous torch to bear for this particular method; it's just what I like to do.
That said, this method does have its uses with saponifying just fats. I sometimes start the saponification with the solid fats and all of the lye, bring this partial batter to a light trace, and then add the liquid fats. This definitely slows the development of trace if more time is needed for fancy work.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
I typed that a few different ways and just decided to use a generic term.
In theory it makes sense I guess. If you have a mix of fats/fatty acids however, how is that different than a natural oil with a mix of them as well? If it's the difference of cleaving the triglycerides first and then timing it so you are saponifying all fatty acids it sounds wonderful in theory but seems like it would be hard to pull off in practice.
I may have to try that because my swirls so far look like a box full of dye-dipped cauliflower.
I got the idea from a post that DeeAnna made. I don't know if the soap works any better. In fact, I sort of doubt it. It just seems like a good way to get trace going evenly. The stearic acid seizes everything so quickly that not much can be done past the point of adding it with lye - at least I couldn't in my mix.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
It do make mashed potatoes quickly.
roblem:It could be that mixing the traced oils with instantly-saponifying-stearic helps keep the emulsion together.
Of course, if the stearic is already in there, one could argue that both approaches are equivalent ... ...
-Dave
"... how is that different than a natural oil with a mix of them as well? If it's the difference of cleaving the triglycerides first and then timing it so you are saponifying all fatty acids..."
I have no mysterious chemical theory about why this method differs from throwing it all in a pot and pouring in the lye. It's all about making things easier to do, that's all. I thought I made that clear when I said this earlier...
"...This method allows me to mix the fats and other ingredients and bring them to a clear trace in a civilized way. Then the stearic can do what it wants at a point when I know everything else is ready for near-instant mashed potatoes. ..."
Is the way I write giving the impression that there's more going on than just this?
"...mixing the traced oils with instantly-saponifying-stearic helps keep the emulsion together...."
No, at trace the emulsion is already stable. It's purely and simply about making the soap easier for me to make, guys. If this tip seems pointless and a waste of time ... then by all means don't bother.
I have no mysterious chemical theory about why this method differs from throwing it all in a pot and pouring in the lye. It's all about making things easier to do, that's all. I thought I made that clear when I said this earlier...
"...This method allows me to mix the fats and other ingredients and bring them to a clear trace in a civilized way. Then the stearic can do what it wants at a point when I know everything else is ready for near-instant mashed potatoes. ..."
Is the way I write giving the impression that there's more going on than just this?
"...mixing the traced oils with instantly-saponifying-stearic helps keep the emulsion together...."
No, at trace the emulsion is already stable. It's purely and simply about making the soap easier for me to make, guys. If this tip seems pointless and a waste of time ... then by all means don't bother.
LBussy
Well-Known Member
DeeAnna I think I may have offended where none was intended. This is just a mental exercise. Asking "why" got me here, I never stop.
DeeAnna:
I'm with Lee, if I did something to offend, I apologize.
Could you clarify something for me? I thought trace was when the soaper gets "traces" of white in the oil/water emulsion whilst stirring?
Or is it when the entire mass begins to turn white?
-Dave
Hey, Dosco and Lee -- No problem. We're good.
As far as "trace" goes -- it doesn't have anything to do with a color change exactly. It's more about a change in texture of the soap batter.
Trace is the point at which the soap batter is thick enough so it is a stable emulsion, meaning it won't separate back into separate water and fat layers if you stop stirring. The visual clue of "trace" is when your spatula or spoon leaves some visual evidence of its path in the batter.
"Very light to light trace" is when the batter has started to thicken slightly. First, the batter changes from a wet-looking shine to a slightly duller and more waxy sheen. This is the point at which the batter has just become a stable emulsion, but I don't think most people would say it has quite reached trace yet. Some people will stop stirring at this point, however, and start to color their batter and do their fancy work. With some practice, this practice is pretty safe, but there is some risk of the batter separating in the mold if you stop mixing a wee bit too soon.
A very light trace would be when you can see just a faint hint of the spatula's path on the surface if you look at the batter with the light reflecting brightly off the surface. A light trace is when the path is faint but obvious to anyone who looks at the batter. The batter is still fluid and flowable.
"Medium to heavy trace" is when the batter is more like a thick gravy to pudding texture. Stirring with a spoon or spatula will cut a clear groove through the soap. A spoonful of soap will make a mound when dropped onto the surface of the batter. At very heavy trace, the batter may not be pourable -- you will have to spoon or spread it into the mold.
General info:
http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/g/glosstrace.htm
http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/trace/
Examples of light trace:
http://www.lovinsoap.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMG_3992.jpg
http://www.howdoimakesoap.com/2014/06/04/make-cold-process-soap/trace-cold-process-soap/
http://thenerdyfarmwife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Oatmeal-Honey-Hot-Process-Soap-at-Trace.jpg
Examples of medium to heavy trace:
http://gnowfglins-gnowfglins.netdna-ssl.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/trace2.jpg
http://comfortandjoysoap.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dsc00259.jpg?w=459&h=347
http://frustratedfarmgirl.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/dsc_00601.jpg
As far as "trace" goes -- it doesn't have anything to do with a color change exactly. It's more about a change in texture of the soap batter.
Trace is the point at which the soap batter is thick enough so it is a stable emulsion, meaning it won't separate back into separate water and fat layers if you stop stirring. The visual clue of "trace" is when your spatula or spoon leaves some visual evidence of its path in the batter.
"Very light to light trace" is when the batter has started to thicken slightly. First, the batter changes from a wet-looking shine to a slightly duller and more waxy sheen. This is the point at which the batter has just become a stable emulsion, but I don't think most people would say it has quite reached trace yet. Some people will stop stirring at this point, however, and start to color their batter and do their fancy work. With some practice, this practice is pretty safe, but there is some risk of the batter separating in the mold if you stop mixing a wee bit too soon.
A very light trace would be when you can see just a faint hint of the spatula's path on the surface if you look at the batter with the light reflecting brightly off the surface. A light trace is when the path is faint but obvious to anyone who looks at the batter. The batter is still fluid and flowable.
"Medium to heavy trace" is when the batter is more like a thick gravy to pudding texture. Stirring with a spoon or spatula will cut a clear groove through the soap. A spoonful of soap will make a mound when dropped onto the surface of the batter. At very heavy trace, the batter may not be pourable -- you will have to spoon or spread it into the mold.
General info:
http://candleandsoap.about.com/od/coldprocesssoapmaking/g/glosstrace.htm
http://www.soapqueen.com/bath-and-body-tutorials/tips-and-tricks/trace/
Examples of light trace:
http://www.lovinsoap.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/IMG_3992.jpg
http://www.howdoimakesoap.com/2014/06/04/make-cold-process-soap/trace-cold-process-soap/
http://thenerdyfarmwife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/Oatmeal-Honey-Hot-Process-Soap-at-Trace.jpg
Examples of medium to heavy trace:
http://gnowfglins-gnowfglins.netdna-ssl.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/trace2.jpg
http://comfortandjoysoap.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/dsc00259.jpg?w=459&h=347
http://frustratedfarmgirl.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/dsc_00601.jpg
Last edited:
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