HP shampoo bars

[Ciloo]

Hi there, I’m Cecile, I’ve been soaping for several years now.
I searched the forum for an answer and found nothing, so I decided to create a new post.
I have an idea and I don’t know if it is doable: I would like to make a hot process soap for a shampoo and once fully saponified, try and drop the pH by adding a citric acid solution to bring it closer to pH=7, even lower if I can. (Ideally around 6,5)
I read a lot of posts telling that soap doesn’t do good with acids, but all I read was about before saponification, like adding citric acid in a soap to deal with soap scums (sodium citrate acting as a chelating agent) or ACV that basically decrease the amount of lye available to saponify the oils in the formula.
Has anyone tried such a thing ?

Thanks a lot for any answer

 

[artemis]

Hi there, I’m Cecile, I’ve been soaping for several years now.
I searched the forum for an answer and found nothing, so I decided to create a new post.
I have an idea and I don’t know if it is doable: I would like to make a hot process soap for a shampoo and once fully saponified, try and drop the pH by adding a citric acid solution to bring it closer to pH=7, even lower if I can. (Ideally around 6,5)
I read a lot of posts telling that soap doesn’t do good with acids, but all I read was about before saponification, like adding citric acid in a soap to deal with soap scums (sodium citrate acting as a chelating agent) or ACV that basically decrease the amount of lye available to saponify the oils in the formula.
Has anyone tried such a thing ?

Thanks a lot for any answer

I feel like this came up again very recently. When I get home, I'll try to find the thread.

 

[DeeAnna]

In a word, no this won't work.

Slightly longer answer: Whether you add acid before saponification or after saponification, soap will respond by decomposing into fatty acids. You cannot, CANNOT lower the pH of soap below about 8.5 or 9 and still have a functional soap. If you want a product that has an acidic pH, you must use synthetic detergents to make the product, not lye-based soap.

Here's the thread I think you have in mind, @artemis: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/adding-ca-to-rebatched-soap-to-lower-ph.93539/

 

[artemis]

Here's the thread I think you have in mind, @artemis: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/adding-ca-to-rebatched-soap-to-lower-ph.93539/

Thanks!

 

[SideDoorSoaps]

I was just thinking about this topic the other day when someone asked me if I made shampoo bars and then they shared who they get theirs from and the listing said pH balanced but the ingredients looked like a HP/CP bar.

 

[DeeAnna]

I was just thinking about this topic the other day when someone asked me if I made shampoo bars and then they shared who they get theirs from and the listing said pH balanced but the ingredients looked like a HP/CP bar.

People use those awful paper test strips without any training about how to use them correctly and without understanding their limitations. They rub them on a bar of soap and believe the results are accurate.

From what I can tell, these strips show the pH of soap is 2-3 pH units lower (more acidic) than what the accurate pH probably is. So the strips will say the pH is maybe 7 or 8 when the soap really has a true pH more like 10.

Maybe that's what this person is doing?

 

[paradisi]

People use those awful paper test strips without any training about how to use them correctly and without understanding their limitations. They rub them on a bar of soap and believe the results are accurate.

From what I can tell, these strips show the pH of soap is 2-3 pH units lower (more acidic) than what the accurate pH probably is. So the strips will say the pH is maybe 7 or 8 when the soap really has a true pH more like 10.

Maybe that's what this person is doing?

That is the most charitable explanation, and probably most likely, I'd guess. Meaning well but not thinking it all the way through.

 

[SideDoorSoaps]

@DeeAnna, yes, I do think that is probably what they might be doing or just making the claim…it’s suspect to me for sure. They also had some ingredients in their bar that had me thinking of the effectiveness of those ingredients after saponification, such as panthenol.

In any case, their site had me confused because there was lots of correct info about soapmaking and then other claims that were sus.