HP; please help me understand the stages?!

[ChristinaB]

So far I've made three batches of HP soap (in the crockpot). The first two seem fine, the one today (Rosemary Mint) seems like it hardened before it had a chance to fully saponify. It went through a beautiful creamy, custardy phase, then mashed potato phase, then I put the lid on and left it alone for a few minutes. It started to harden around the edges and get oily in the center; is this what is called 'gel phase'? When I tried to mix it all together there was a large hard lump of white underneath the oil that really didn't want to mix in.

I got it to resemble applesauce and returned to cooking but it never lost it's 'zap', and there are lots of little white spots all over the soap. I finally gave up, added EO's and scooped it into the mold. It's not really a zap, but after a few seconds my tongue starts to sting and it lasts a few minutes, so I'm guessing this is lye heavy?! I had my crockpot on high; should I keep it on low instead? Did the liquid evaporate out before it had a chance to fully cure? Is there anything I could have done before molding to help it cook more? Lastly, if I rebatch~I will probably need to add more EO's, is that correct?

One more question; this soap didn't have any hard oils in it (well, unless CO is considered hard, but I was able to pour that from the container) and I'm less than thrilled with the way it feels on my skin as opposed to the first two batches that both had oat flour and lard....is there anything I can do to make this a nicer batch of soap? Thanks for any information!

 

[krissy]

well first off the HP process can be hard to do but it gets easier. also, not every batch/recipe goes through every stage the same so you may have "skipped" a step in the cooking, that's ok. i would cook on low next time.

now some questions-
recipe??
did you use the full water amount or did you discount?
did you allow it to finish cooking and not zap at all before you molded it?
was the lye fully dissolved in the water before you added it to the oils?

 

[ChristinaB]

Recipe was: 12 oz water
6 oz lye
19 oz Olive Oil
6 oz coconut oil
6 oz castor oil

I'd read on this forum to mix my EO's in a little bit of jojoba oil to help anchor the scent, so that is the only extra thing I did; it was probably not more than two tbsp.

I know I should have still run the recipe through a lye calculator but I haven't even braved looking at those yet.....I will now! I was searching for a recipe that didn't use palm oil since I can't find that anywhere without ordering online, and I didn't want to use lard or shortening even though I really liked the previous soap I'd make with lard simply because I wanted to see if the soap had any different smell made without, and also to test if the smooth, silky feel the other soap had came from the use of lard. I think I am a lard fan now though.....
I did use use the full amount of water and the lye water was crystal clear. Maybe the lump in the bottom of the crock was actually a seize? I was able to mash it all together to get the applesauce look, but very soon the soap got very thick, airy, and just wouldn't cook anymore. For over an hour I stirred and cooked, but it kept getting more and more dry, so I did add a little extra water to see if that would thin it enough to help it finish cooking. It didn't seem to help and it still had tons of little hard chunks that wouldn't melt down, so by that point I really thought it was a lost batch and gave up. Maybe I should have just let it continue to cook and cook, but I didn't know if that would even do anything. I can use the soap on my hands and don't get any sting, it's just that after a few seconds on my tongue it starts to sting like pepper.....?
Once it got to trace should I have taken the pot out just continued to stir for a while? I've read so much and watched so many videos on youtube, but it seems like everyone says something a little bit different, so I'm terribly confused!

 

[krissy]

according to soapcalc, you have nearly 2 oz extra lye in there. no amount of cooking will make a batch that is lye heavy not be lye heavy. are you sure on the numbers?

also as this shows you, you must use a soapcalc every time you formulate/try a new recipe.

i don't know if you can save the batch or not. i'd trash it. :cry:

 

[ChristinaB]

ooopsss....it was 16 oz of water, not 12, I'm sorry! I cut the recipe in half; does that affect the lye ratio? Can something like this be rebatched, or will it still not cook out the lumps that I presume are lye?

 

[krissy]

even having less amount of water will not kill your soap, you want the extra because of evaporation during the cook. it helps it stay more fluid.

but even if you had added more water, it would still be lye heavy.
to rebatch this batch you will need to figure out how much more of whatever oil you choose to add so that there is a surplus of oils (superfat) at whatever percent you choose.

then cut up your batch and put it back in the pot with the oils and melt everything down and try to finish cooking the soap until it doesn't zap.
even then, there is no guarantee that the batch will be worth all the extra work you are in for. if it was me... i'd pitch it. and then go to soapcalc.com and really learn how to use it. it is easier once you have spent some time playing with it.

 

[ChristinaB]

I used a lye calc on Brambleberry's site that gave these numbers:

OO 44.2%
CO 27.9%
Castor 27.9%
Lye 3.151 oz
liquid 7.1 oz

Will rebatching do anything for soap that is lye heavy? Or is that just to fix forgotten/missed ingredients?

 

[ChristinaB]

Thank you~I just don't understand yet about the percentages; I don't know what I should be aiming for yet, so I've relied on recipes I've found online that people seemed to have success with. I don't even understand superfatting really~what is the purpose of it? How to do it? I know I'm the ultimate noobie here, but I really have done a lot of reading and research, but there is just so much out there that it's hard to know whose information is correct!

I would like to try to remake this batch of soap; does anyone have a good recipe that doesn't call for palm oil? The oils I have available right now are OO, CO, castor oil, a small bottle of jojoba, a few oz of almond oil, lg bottle of grapeseed, and cold pressed sunflower oil. I also have lard and shortening, and I'm not opposed to using that in this recipe. I'm actually not opposed to using anything! I just want to make sure that what I'm spending my time on is worth the effort and money; this batch of soap was not! But after using the first two batches I made I really am hooked on handmade soap!

Thank you again for offering to help, I know noobies are a pain in the neck, but forums are how I've learned to do and master everything that I do, and I am eternally grateful!

 

[krissy]

yes, to remake this batch exactly (with the right amount of lye ) you would use

6 oz Castor
6 oz Coconut
19 oz Olive
12 oz water
4.2 oz lye
this gives you a 5% superfat and uses the full water amount (38%)

i will find a thing that explains superfatting for you...
gimme a minute.

this helped me out a lot...
http://www.canis-art.com/soaping.htm

 

[ChristinaB]

Krissy, thank you so much! The visual is adorable, and definitely helps me to understand So it looks like the lye amount called for in the original recipe really was too much, and that would have nothing to do with how much or how little water would it? It's dependent on the amount of oils? Definitely anything that you can post about superfatting will be appreciated, if that is an insurance policy of sorts against too much lye, I'll superfat everytime I make soap!

 

[Fullamoon]

krissy - that is hysterical! And it's a very clever way they described it. Love that and I'll remember it.

 

[krissy]

Krissy, thank you so much! The visual is adorable, and definitely helps me to understand So it looks like the lye amount called for in the original recipe really was too much, and that would have nothing to do with how much or how little water would it? It's dependent on the amount of oils? Definitely anything that you can post about superfatting will be appreciated, if that is an insurance policy of sorts against too much lye, I'll superfat everytime I make soap!

yes, always superfat your recipes. that little cartoon thing is what helped me to understand it best. i always use between 5-7.5% superfat.