HP lovers, please reply here

[Laurabolyard]

I would like to get an idea of who you are, so I can bounce some ideas and get some tips. Who are the HP people and what are the reasons for your preferences?

 

[SunRiseArts]

well, I am one of those HP lovers .....

 

[Laurabolyard]

Nice! I'm brand new, with only a few batches under my belt, but I'm thinking I prefer HP. Are there not nearly as many HP folks?

 

[SunRiseArts]

I made exclusively HP for about a year. Design is limited with HP, so I think that is why many folk prefer CP.

But I love the look and feel of HP, and once in a while that is what I make. If you get the hand of it, there are several designs you can incorporate too.

Please post pictures of what you have made! I would love to see it.

 

[Laurabolyard]

My first 2. I think I'm cooking too long because the top is hardening as I'm getting it into the mold! Maybe the recipe I'm using isn't the best for HP. I'll be looking into that!

 

[SunRiseArts]

What? They look awesome! And I love the colors and designs! Specially the bottom one.

If it looks sort of like mashed potatoes you are done. They do tend to harden faster than CP, but they should not harden that fast! What recipe did you use? Maybe you used a lot of hard oils?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

And maybe not enough water. Hp is usually easier with more water and, if possible, some sodium lactate.

I have done hp but I don't have much need to do so except for shaving soaps.

 

[psfred]

More water helps, as does covering the crockpot with plastic wrap while it's cooking and NOT stirring it much. You lose quite a bit of water during the cook, and dry soap sets up very fast.

I cover mine with plastic wrap as soon as I have it in the mold, that allows me to smooth the top quite a bit using a spatula or something.

I don't mind the rough look of fairly dry HP since I'm mostly using the soap myself, and it's faster for me -- if I get started right after dinner, I can cut before I go to bed,

CP is faster into the mold, but I have to mess with it the next day, not easy on a week day as I have to get up and out the door early, have an hour drive to work these days.

 

[Laurabolyard]

I do need to get some SL, as I've seen it recommended many times. I'm sure, now that I'm a little more comfortable, I can stir a bit less to save moisture.
I used about 40% crisco, 30% coconut and 30% OO, too many hard oils ya think?
I've also read to add a couple tbsp yogurt at the end, or discount about 1/4 water to add add the end. What do you think?

Im ok with the look, but I wouldn't have minded it being a little more fluid to give me more than a MINUTE to play with a design!

Now that I'm thinking about it, note the greener base in the first one, and the whiter (harder) in the second!! I changed my % of olive/crisco!! AHA!

 

[gloopygloop]

I only do HP as I prefer it. I dont use a crock pot as I hate them, I feel they are difficult to control heat wise, I dont like prodding about with soap once its in the pot, I like to leave it to saponify on its own, zap test it around 1/2 mark...ish, usually done if not give it another 10 to 15 mins. I usually OP mine but today strangely enough I made a 500 gram test batch to play with a mix and I bain marie'd it for the first time, done in 30 mins! good as gold, into mould and out of mould in 3 hours, so far happy on this one.

 

[IrishLass]

I used to HP more often back in my earlier soaping days, but it wasn't long before CP stole my heart to the point that I only HP if I absolutely have to, i.e., when making my shave soap which is impossible to CP because of the high stearic, and when using an FO that won't play nice in CP (seized soap-on-a-stick).

These are the things that I've found to really help make my HP batter more fluid (I use all of them together when I HP):

1) I use a 28% lye concentration
2) I use 3% sodium lactate ppo (I should mention the type of SL I use is the prepared kind in a 60% solution)
3) I use sugar at 5% ppo
4) I use my oven, not a crockpot.

RE: crockpots: Crockpots heat rather high these days due to food safety concerns. It used to be that crockpots heated somewhere around 176F on the low setting and around 194F - 200F on the high setting, and folks were able to HP on low with no issues, but nowadays crockpots heat at least 200F on low and 300F on high (sometimes higher), and I see more and more folks reporting overheating issues when they HP in their crockpots.

For what it's worth, I HP in my oven between 170F - 180F (in a covered stainless steel soup pot), and I refrain from stirring until after it has gone transluscent. Works great. Although my HP batter will never be as beautifully fluid as my CP batter, when I use all of the above 4 tricks, my HP batter comes out about the consistency of a fluid, smooth jam (instead of mashed potatoes), although my top surface still solidifies pretty fast when it hits the air no matter what. To combat the topside fuglies, I make my HP batches a little bigger than normal and then I plane the fuglies off after cure so that I'm left with a normal-sized bar in the end.


IrishLass

 

[gloopygloop]

I used to HP more often back in my earlier soaping days, but it wasn't long before CP stole my heart to the point that I only HP if I absolutely have to, i.e., when making my shave soap which is impossible to CP because of the high stearic, and when using an FO that won't play nice in CP (seized soap-on-a-stick).

These are the things that I've found to really help make my HP batter more fluid (I use all of them together when I HP):

1) I use a 28% lye concentration
2) I use 3% sodium lactate ppo (I should mention the type of SL I use is the prepared kind in a 60% solution)
3) I use sugar at 5% ppo
4) I use my oven, not a crockpot.

RE: crockpots: Crockpots heat rather high these days due to food safety concerns. It used to be that crockpots heated somewhere around 176F on the low setting and around 194F - 200F on the high setting, and folks were able to HP on low with no issues, but nowadays crockpots heat at least 200F on low and 300F on high (sometimes higher), and I see more and more folks reporting overheating issues when they HP in their crockpots.

For what it's worth, I HP in my oven between 170F - 180F (in a covered stainless steel soup pot), and I refrain from stirring until after it has gone transluscent. Works great. Although my HP batter will never be as beautifully fluid as my CP batter, when I use all of the above 4 tricks, my HP batter comes out about the consistency of a fluid, smooth jam (instead of mashed potatoes), although my top surface still solidifies pretty fast when it hits the air no matter what. To combat the topside fuglies, I make my HP batches a little bigger than normal and then I plane the fuglies off after cure so that I'm left with a normal-sized bar in the end.


IrishLass

A big DITTO to all of that, you took the words out of my mouth. That is pretty much exactly as I do, my temp in the oven is 80c to 100c which I think is very similar to you IL. I have managed to get some mixes fairly fluid, almost pourable but that is an exception. I started with CP but it was in fact HP which stole my heart!!! I am not a lover of highly coloured and pattered soaps, I love gentle water colour swirls which i can achieve easily with HP. I usually cling film ( saran wrap) tops and smooth over, I often use cavity moulds in which case I cling film top then roll a rolling pin over, this give me only a slight scrape needed after removal.

 

[Laurabolyard]

Great advice!! Should I refrain from opening the oven and stirring??
I'm guessing you don't recommend reserving some liquid to add at the end, or yogurt.
Also, I've seen adding color early on, thoughts??

 

[gloopygloop]

I would say rule of thumb dont touch the the soap once in the oven until about 40 minutes is up at which you can then give it a stir and zap test, if there is any zap which is highly unlikely but just one in a while it takes a bit longer so give it another 10 to 15 minutes and possibly turn the oven off by which time it will be done unless something has gone a bit amiss! but even then eventually it would cure out.
I dont find any need to add anything after the soap is done unless it is for emollience, if it is to make the soap more fluid there is no need as your sodium lactate, higher than CP water and sugar will have done their work on that score, but by all means if you want to add goat milk or some other emollient after the cook go ahead but dont add very cold things or extra fluid which has not been accounted for to the soap as you really do want to retain its heat so that it stays workable and not make too soft with extra fluid, it does want to dry out as soon as it can so we try to avoid that, hence no peeking until its done in the oven, and then get to work a fast as you can adding your scent and or colours etc. before it can dry out. You could indeed add colour early on but of course that will only give you a block colour so if you want to swirl or marble colours you will need to do that once its cooked and just before moulding. All of that should give you a pretty smooth soap not a dry old lumpy mess, in fact once un-moulded it shouldn't look too different to CP.

 

[amysoap]

I make soap primarily for my own use and have made only HP in the crockpot. I don’t use colorants but I do use either essential oils or fragrance oils designed for soaping. I made my first batch almost five years ago. This last year I read about the stick blend hot process method which allows for adding yoghurt and / or water at the end of the cook. I use a small amount of sugar water after the cook and it makes the soap much easier to work with at pour time, especially for individual cavity molds. I have noticed a slight warping in the soap shape after a 6 week cure, but I don’t sell soap so it doesn’t really matter to me.

 

[gloopygloop]

I make soap primarily for my own use and have made only HP in the crockpot. I don’t use colorants but I do use either essential oils or fragrance oils designed for soaping. I made my first batch almost five years ago. This last year I read about the stick blend hot process method which allows for adding yoghurt and / or water at the end of the cook. I use a small amount of sugar water after the cook and it makes the soap much easier to work with at pour time, especially for individual cavity molds. I have noticed a slight warping in the soap shape after a 6 week cure, but I don’t sell soap so it doesn’t really matter to me.

If you use sodium lactate this will keep the soap fluid so no need for any other additives to do that along with the sugar which also helps and I think the sugar is better added up front with the lye. As we had said above some of us find crock pots too hot, I certainly do and not as controllable but if it all works for you then great, once you have a formula that works no need to change unless it is for experiment. I do think though that it is the adding of extra fluid which could be causing or contributing the warping of your bars, I have been there many years ago and found that happened with too much fluid.

 

[Laurabolyard]

Do you recommend 38% water, or higher? Also, are there oils that work better for HP? I think I already found that using too much of a hard oil % isn't best!

 

[IrishLass]

Do you recommend 38% water, or higher? Also, are there oils that work better for HP? I think I already found that using too much of a hard oil % isn't best!

38% water as per the weight of oils, or 38% water as per the weight of lye (aka- lye concentration)? I ask because on SoapCalc, it gives you the option to calculate by either one, and they each result in different water amounts. For what it's worth, the better of the two ways is to calculate water based as a percentage of the lye amount, because calculating based as a percentage of the oil amount can lead to inconsistencies in ones finished batches depending on ones formula. See this post by our DeeAnna for the explanation of why this is so: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showpost.php?p=510269&postcount=11

Anyway, I personally would advise against using the 38% water as per oils and use a 28% lye concentration instead (which is considered to be a 'full water' amount, which is what I and many others use for HP).

Re: types of fats- I've found that any fat can be used for HP, even the most hardest of fats. Take my shave soap, for example. It uses lots of high stearic fats and butters plus a good dose of straight stearic acid, and it HPs just fine for me.


IrishLass

 

[NsMar42111]

Hp'er here! CP just so messy to clean up (although I'm eying it more and more).

A side note on the crockpots, mine have a "keep warm" setting. Lately I've been starting on high for a few minutes, dropping to low until I see something happening in the batter edges, then dropping it to Keep Warm until almost done, then turning it off and letting it finish.... I tried a batch on high to speed it up and no thanks! volcano!

 

[gloopygloop]

i agree totally with Irish Lass. I have just made palm free batch but have used 3% stearic to give it a bit more hardness and it so far has turned out fine and not difficult to mould. I also agree with IL regarding the water amount.