how to put lard on labels

[SudsyKat]

I'm not an expert by any means, but just my 2 cents - when I buy a product, I want the ingredient list to be as short as possible. We have a popular soap shop out here (Soaptopia). They list the ingredients more simply, like Palm Oil, Coconut Oil, etc. I would be hesitant to buy a soap that had a lot of scientific sounding ingredients in it (even if they are harmless). So, from a marketing standpoint, I vote for the simpler terms.

As for the lard thing - I'd definitely want to know if there's lard in the soap because I lean toward vegan, though I'm a bit loose with it. Then again, take everything I say with a grain of salt because I come from the land of fruits and nuts - California. I live in L.A., where everything and everyone is totally natural ( :roll: ).

 

[agriffin]

Oh boy...Soaptopia. I have issues with them. Let's look at an ingredient listing from their website.

Our soap is all natural and handmade in small batches with lots of love and only the finest ingredients consisting of: Italian Olive oil, wildcrafted Shea butter, Coconut oil, Palm oil, Avocado oil, Organic Hempseed oil, plant infusions, Sweet Orange Blossom, Eucalytpus and Aloe Vera Essential Oils, Agave Root Extract and LOVE!.


Three things...aloe vera essential oils? And made with love? and they don't list lye. To me this is just deceptive.

I do love the look of their soaps though. Packaging, website...looks great.

 

[SudsyKat]

I totally see your point - especially about the lye. I guess I was (foolishly) assuming that if a legitimate business (they have a couple of brick and mortar stores in addition to the website) felt it was within the bounds of the law to list their ingredients that way, then perhaps it is? Honestly, I don't know. I do know that an ingredient list like that is much more appealing to me than one with lots of scientific names on it. Just sayin...

 

[agriffin]

I totally see your point - especially about the lye. I guess I was (foolishly) assuming that if a legitimate business (they have a couple of brick and mortar stores in addition to the website) felt it was within the bounds of the law to list their ingredients that way, then perhaps it is? Honestly, I don't know. I do know that an ingredient list like that is much more appealing to me than one with lots of scientific names on it. Just sayin...

I do hear what you're saying. Simpler is easier and less scarry to the consumer.

 

[American Valkyrie]

If your friend is so concerned about losing veggie customers by labeling 'Lard', why doesn't she just formulate and also offer a non-lard soap? That's what I do (and I'm sure many other lard soapers do, too).

IrishLass

Finding out that a company had reworded an ingredient to "hide" something that was against my belief system would repel me much faster than wondering if a supplier had a vegan option. Taking consideration for someone else's beliefs/choices, whether or not you agree with or understand them, relays a willingness to work with and care for your clientele. Though pork isn't one of them, I also have religious dietary/usage restrictions, and when someone takes a moment to consider my choices (not putting alcohol in the fondue) it means a lot to me.

Once I went to (a major coffee chain) and ordered steamed milk for my kids. The barista didn't even stop to clarify that I did NOT want coffee. My 11-year-old had consumed half of his beverage before his sister remarked that it tasted funny. That was the beginning of a long night. We go to a different store now for our steamed milks.

Since a lot of vegetarians/vegans use natural soaps, having that consideration is going to draw more customers than hedging around them. Having a clearly labeled vegan option is going to go far.

 

[dagmar88]

THANK YOU, ALL!!!

My web person suggested I list my ingredients this way:

Ingredients: Goat's Milk. Distilled water. Saponified oils of Olive, Lard, Coconut, Sweet Almond, Castor, Apricot Kernal, and Babassu. Shea Butter. Scented with Fragrance Oils and Lavender Buds.

If you want to do it this way, where you put on the label what is in there instead of what GOES in there, you should also list glycerine and use the correct terms. To much of a hassle for me; yet another math problem

I add about 8% shea butter so it come before the castor oil, but I don't include it in the oils because its a butter. Is that okay? and what do you think about the term "saponified oils of..."?

No, just list it in the right order; from biggest to smallest. It doesn't matter if it's an oil or butter at all.
I personally wouldn't use that term; it's most often used by big companies that buy pre-saponified oils and butters. And as said, what would you do with the superfat? List everything twice?

In the past, I have listed it this way:

Ingredients: Goat's Milk. Distilled water. Olive oil, Lard, Coconut oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Sweet Almond oil, Shea Butter, Castor oil, Apricot Kernal oil, and Babassu oil. Dragon's Blood fragrance (or whatever fragrance or essential oil I have used), and Lavender buds (or whatever botanicals like chamomile, etc).

Which would you recommend?

Thanks for all of your help!!!

Joy

I'd reccomand: Goat Milk, Aqua, Olea Europaea Oil, Lard, Cocos Nucifera Oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Prunus Amygdalus Dulcis Oil, Butyrospermum Parkii Butter, Ricinus Communis Oil, Prunus Armeniaca Kernel Oil, Orbignya Oleifera Oil, Fragrance*, Lavandula Angustifolia.

*In the USA you can just use the word fragrance for every kind of fragrance if I'm right; but most peope use Fragrance for fragrance oils and list the Inci name when using essential oils.
In Europe however, you'd have to list Fragrance, or the Inci of the essential oil and include the exact substances in there that are known to cause allergies.

Ya know...this is how I do it.

Brown Sugar, Water, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Liquid Soap (water, Olea Europaea (Olive) Fruit Oil, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Potassium Hydroxide*), Stearic Acid, Emulsifying Wax NF, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter) Fruit, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Seed Butter, Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil, Optiphen Preservative (Phenoxyethanol (and) Caprylyl Glycol (and) Sorbic Acid), Fragrance

Which I guess is technically wrong. I would want to break the ingredients out from the liquid soap and list them in order used as well. What a headache.

Yup...but making inci's does give you a huge headache period Looks really good though!
(BTW, haven't you seen that soap made with prayer yet? I pray for my soap to come out halfway decent all the time, but I guess He has a lot of more important things on His mind )

@SudsyKat, if you'd like to put anything aside from just soap on your label, the INCI should be used; it's just what the FDA has come up with. In Europe soap that is mend to use on the body is seen as a cosmetic and we should use the INCI always.
I wouldn't buy from a company with an ingredient list like that; I think it's very unprofessional.
Plus I'm not sure they're allowed to put wildcrafted or organic in their list...
However, if I'll ever menage to own a shop, I would put up a little card with the ingredients in Dutch in front of every row of soap.

 

[SudsyKat]

I guess the big scientific names wouldn't scare me as long as they were listed with the simple name in parentheses (like others have suggested). And of course, if it's required by the FDA, then I'd adhere to whatever standards they have.

I'm nowhere near selling my soap yet - I'm a total newbie and just having a blast with it. But I do dream about being able to make money from doing something I love and have a passion for, so it's interesting to see these discussions. Thanks to all for contributing to my knowledge base!

 

[BakingNana]

Is there such a thing as wildcrafted Shea Butter? In the reading I've done, it sounds like all shea could be deemed "wildcrafted." Some labels seem to be more marketing ploys than ethical labeling.

@agriffin...Back to the sugar scrubs. If you did break out all the ingredients used in the soap shreds, I would assume you would just leave out the word "liquid soap" or "soap" and list the ingredients in volume order. And ya, what a headache. As it is when a customer is looking at the label on a sugar scrub, I always jump in and say something like "there are only 4 ingredients in the solid sugar scrubs," which sort of gives me an opening to go on to explain INCI and FDA info. Education is power, as they say. I figure a customer who understands INCI is more likely to appreciate what is and isn't in my stuff.

 

[carebear]

THANK YOU, ALL!!!

My web person suggested I list my ingredients this way:

Ingredients: Goat's Milk. Distilled water. Saponified oils of Olive, Lard, Coconut, Sweet Almond, Castor, Apricot Kernal, and Babassu. Shea Butter. Scented with Fragrance Oils and Lavender Buds.

If you want to do it this way, where you put on the label what is in there instead of what GOES in there, you should also list glycerine and use the correct terms. To much of a hassle for me; yet another math problem

still not correct. there are unsaponified oils as well - remember, you have a lye discount (or superfat). do you have any idea of the proportions or amounts of each oil is left unsaponified? would you actually need to list them as the individual fatty acids? THAT is to much of a hassle for me.

LIST YOUR INGREDIENTS, ALL YOUR INGREDIENTS. Unless your web person has a degree in law and a background in such things, just follow the rules and don't try to hide your sodium hydroxide.

 

[agriffin]

Is there such a thing as wildcrafted Shea Butter? In the reading I've done, it sounds like all shea could be deemed "wildcrafted." Some labels seem to be more marketing ploys than ethical labeling.

@agriffin...Back to the sugar scrubs. If you did break out all the ingredients used in the soap shreds, I would assume you would just leave out the word "liquid soap" or "soap" and list the ingredients in volume order. And ya, what a headache. As it is when a customer is looking at the label on a sugar scrub, I always jump in and say something like "there are only 4 ingredients in the solid sugar scrubs," which sort of gives me an opening to go on to explain INCI and FDA info. Education is power, as they say. I figure a customer who understands INCI is more likely to appreciate what is and isn't in my stuff.

Yes, you would want to omit soap or liquid soap and list the ingredients in volume order.

 

[KD]

labeling

Wow! This a hot topic! Just a quick word from a Canadian soaper. On top of the proper listing of ingredients, we must also make sure that we are aware that, in Canada, soap is a cosmetic. Non-cosmetic colors, which are becoming increasingly popular in the States, may not be legal for use in Canadian soaps. Please make sure you check with Health Canada. Incidentally, I have had an experience with a fellow soaper here who refuses to label her soap with ingredients. She thinks that we are all out there trying to steal her recipe She has her soap in several shops, and I have to wonder why none of them seem to have an issue with the missing ingredient listing.

 

[c.a.p.]

I agree that ingredients should be listed, in order of % weight used, most to least. And I, too, wouldn't buy soap where sodium hydroxide was missing or concealed in sodium lardate, etc especially if it were handcrafted. However, I don't believe it is against FDA regs. Soap doesn't have to have an ingredients list. And, someone correct me if I am wrong, by law, just because you DO add an ingredients list, you do not have to use the INCI names. Am I wrong here? I'm talking about US law, not what someone WANTS to see.

I list my ingredients, including sodium hydroxide, in the proper order, but I don't include the INCI names as I believe they are not required.

Comments?

 

[carebear]

Re: labeling

She thinks that we are all out there trying to steal her recipe

she must be one freaking marvelous soaper...

hell if I thought I could buy something superior to mine, I'd not bother making it.

 

[igbabygirl]

I agree that ingredients should be listed, in order of % weight used, most to least. And I, too, wouldn't buy soap where sodium hydroxide was missing or concealed in sodium lardate, etc especially if it were handcrafted. However, I don't believe it is against FDA regs. Soap doesn't have to have an ingredients list. And, someone correct me if I am wrong, by law, just because you DO add an ingredients list, you do not have to use the INCI names. Am I wrong here? I'm talking about US law, not what someone WANTS to see.

I list my ingredients, including sodium hydroxide, in the proper order, but I don't include the INCI names as I believe they are not required.

Comments?

That is how I list my ingredients. I want people to know what is in my soap, but I do not use INCI names. I have used the word sapnofied, but see where you are coming from, so I will change that on my ingredients list. Very insightful topic here.

 

[MBZ]

Hi Everyone--someone whose shop and business sense I admire on another forum puts this on her label:

Ingredients: Raw goat milk; Saponified natural fats, coconut oil, olive oil, soybean oil; Fragrance; Natural color.

I am assuming that the "natural fats" refer to lard or tallow and I like the way she phrased it because here in Los Angeles a lot of people (well, my friends, anyway!) see the words "lard" or "tallow" and go "yuck" and move on. I love lard in my soaps because of the creaminess. What do you think? Is this legal/ethical? I don't want to get in trouble when at the holiday fairs this month and next....

Thanks in advance....

Joy

If your product is "SOAP" (lye-sodium hydroxide) You don't even need to list the ingredients unless you want to or it's marketed as a children's soap and for that you must have the certification. The FDA doesn't regulate soap, unless it's marketed as organic, moisturizing, or something else that could be considered "cosmetic." Granted California likely has some other laws, but as far as the FDA or the CPSC you don't NEED to list them.
You can read the entire FDA regulation at 21 CFR 701.20.