How to increase lather and conditioning effect without affecting the hardness of the soap?

[PasisonFruit95]

Hi there, I'm a beginner at soap making. Desperately need some help from u guys.
I'm using a glycerin soap base and required adding in 5% of EO in the soap. How can I increase the conditioning effect and lather efficiently? I've tried to add in more SLES, CAPB, and olive oil/coconut oil, but it turned out the soap became very soft, and the lathering effect didn't improve much. And then, I tried to add in glycerin and Palm Kernelamide DEA, but the result is still the same, but it's harder than the one which add-in SLES. Appreciate it if anyone could help me out.

 

[Rsapienza]

I don’t do much with melt n pour, but I believe you may have added too much stuff to it. I don’t believe you can change those qualities in a melt n pour base. I’m sure someone else with more knowledge with this will chime in.

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Not an state-of-the-art M&P expert, particularly not when it comes to syndets. But I've noticed too that the lather of M&P just can't keep up with decent from-scratch lye based soaps. Or, just as you have experienced, the hardness suffers. It's a compromise that has to be made for M&P to be meltable, but still solidifies, that it has to be made of mostly soaps of saturated fatty acids (sodium palmitate/stearate). Those tend to have not a great, abundant lather, and they can't add much to what is called “conditioning” as a property of soap. Syndets can only help out to some degree.

5% of EOs appear quite a lot to me. Have you checked if this is still within safe usage rates for the EOs in question? AFAIK, M&P soap has only a very limited “capacity” of non-soapy additions to hold without separation or degradation of lather/hardness, and it is generally discouraged to add any unsaponified oils.

 

[Tara_H]

Adding to the above, the guidance you may have seen to add coconut oil to boost lather applies specifically to soap made from scratch, using lye. It's the reaction of the lye with the coconut oil that gives the benefit to the lather. Since there is no remaining lye left in M&P soap to react with the coconut oil, it will probably have the opposite effect.

 

[PasisonFruit95]

Thanks for all the answers! If I insist want to add in 5% EO in the M&P soap, can I add in beeswax to increase the hardness of the soap? Will it affect the foaming and other performance of the soap?

And one more question not related to M&P soap, if I do hot process bar soap that uses lye, do I have to cure the soap for one week and longer? or I can use the soap straight after it's hardened. I read some guidance stating that hot process bar soap still needs curing time but some don't. Once again appreciate all the help!

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Messing around with M&P soap base (like adding oils/wax/syndets/more than the recommended EO load) means that you are on your own. It's not what the manufacturers have intended. We can only guess what could happen.
Beeswax is one of the last ingredients that come to my mind to harden M&P soap – it'll stay unaltered, and probably ruin lather & leave a sticky wax coating on your skin. Idk if this is what you want to risk, but you might try it in a small test batch.
If I had to name some ingredient to increase M&P hardness, I'd go with sodium stearate (e. g. soap made from stearin or soy wax). It's already a common ingredient in M&P recipes, and increasing its share in from-scratch recipes makes the resulting base melt more difficult, but also harder and less quickly dissolving.

Wrt HP usablility: either sources are somewhat right. It is technically usable as soon as it is non-zappy. Which is usually after it has cooled down. BUT just as with CP soap, the performance isn't great (quickly dissolving, few bubbles). It's really worth giving it the same 4…6 weeks of curing time!

 

[Sanctuary]

Thanks for all the answers! If I insist want to add in 5% EO in the M&P soap, can I add in beeswax to increase the hardness of the soap? Will it affect the foaming and other performance of the soap?

And one more question not related to M&P soap, if I do hot process bar soap that uses lye, do I have to cure the soap for one week and longer? or I can use the soap straight after it's hardened. I read some guidance stating that hot process bar soap still needs curing time but some don't. Once again appreciate all the help!

If you let it sit for a few weeks it will harden. Letting it cure removes the left over moisture in the bar and in turn hardens the bar of soap quite nicely.

 

[PasisonFruit95]

Messing around with M&P soap base (like adding oils/wax/syndets/more than the recommended EO load) means that you are on your own. It's not what the manufacturers have intended. We can only guess what could happen.
Beeswax is one of the last ingredients that come to my mind to harden M&P soap – it'll stay unaltered, and probably ruin lather & leave a sticky wax coating on your skin. Idk if this is what you want to risk, but you might try it in a small test batch.
If I had to name some ingredient to increase M&P hardness, I'd go with sodium stearate (e. g. soap made from stearin or soy wax). It's already a common ingredient in M&P recipes, and increasing its share in from-scratch recipes makes the resulting base melt more difficult, but also harder and less quickly dissolving.

Wrt HP usablility: either sources are somewhat right. It is technically usable as soon as it is non-zappy. Which is usually after it has cooled down. BUT just as with CP soap, the performance isn't great (quickly dissolving, few bubbles). It's really worth giving it the same 4…6 weeks of curing time!

I see, thanks for the advice and explanation. I'm going for beeswax as I don't have sodium stearate in my inventory currently. I'll give it a try and see how it works.

 

[PasisonFruit95]

If you let it sit for a few weeks it will harden. Letting it cure removes the left over moisture in the bar and in turn hardens the bar of soap quite nicely.

Thanks for the answer. May I ask another few questions? as I'm very new to soap and have much more to learn. How long and what temperature should I maintain during the cooking stage? or it depends on our recipe itself? I cooked the soap to a gel-like consistency but I still continue to cook it for a little while to make sure the process is fully completed. Looking at the appearance of the soap paste, did I overcook it? The paste looks so scattered and I need to put the paste into the mold during very hot. Otherwise, when the temperature is cooler, the paste is scattered and hard. Or this could be my recipe's problem?

 

[earlene]

If I insist want to add in 5% EO in the M&P soap, can I add in beeswax to increase the hardness of the soap? Will it affect the foaming and other performance of the soap?

Melt & Pour soap that is already made (and that your are not making yourself from scratch), has no Lye (Sodium Hydroxide/caustic soda) to interact with the beeswax to harden the soap, so it will NOT increase the hardness of the soap. If you do add it anyway to see what will happen, make sure that you thoroughly mix them together after melting; in other words, fully incorporate the two ingredients. Even so, it's entirely possible the beeswax will precipitate out of the M&P and re-form as globules of beeswax within the MP soap as the temperatures begin to cool. I don't know for sure because I have never tried to do this, but if you do, please report back with pictures, as it sounds like a rather interesting experiment.

 

[Red Sonja]

Hi. A little late to this thread but I think I can help. The best way to increase conditioning properties is by starting with the right base. Try an olive oil, shea or hemp m&p base. If you want to increase lather add a small amount of shaving m&p base. My clients love the lather. Also 5% FO is way too much. Check the percentage guidelines for the FO you're using. I never use more than 3%. If you're making the soap for yourself and can take the 5%, ok but if you're selling you have to be aware of other people's fragrance tolerances and skin types. Good luck!