How to choose oils and how much ??

[Gaspar Navarrete]

Kansas Farm Girl,

So it looks like the craft of soaping seems to be largely subjective. What properties the soap has is mostly one's opinion and observations. With some guidelines from the soaping oil descriptions.

No problem, I am already have taken notes on the four batches that I have made so far, and will continue to do so. I think that over time, through empirical observation, I will determine "my perfect soap".

I have been under the impression, that if a soaper includes G1 grams of oil O1, and G2 grams of oil O2, in his soap, that soap will have properites from both oils (or at least a weighted average of the two) that I could calculate beforehand.

To answer your questions: I made my recent batch on 3/22/14. It is curing as we speak. I got the recipe from "Everything Soapmaking Book" by Alicia Grosso. I know about SoapCalc, but I shy away from it because I haven't yet figured out what the "water as % of oils" setting means exactly.

 

[FlybyStardancer]

"Water as % of oils" means figuring out how much water to use based on your amount of oils. "Full water" is considered to be 38%. That means for 100g of oil, you would use 38g of water. If you wanted to discount that to 33% water, then you would use 33g of water for every 100g of oil.

For SoapCalc, you would just put what percentage you want to use in the area for it, and it will calculate it for you as a part of the recipe. If you wanted to calculate it yourself, you would take your weight in oils and multiply it by the percentage (.38, or .33, or whatever it is you want to use).

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

Gaspar, I have always found the qualities in the soap to be personal preference. I don't know how much of the natural properties of the base oils come through, I do know they can change after going through saponification. For example, coconut oil is very moisturizing as an oil, but once you put it in soap it can be drying because it tends to remove natural oils from your skin. Someone like DeeAnna is much better at describing those changes than I am.

If you only made your soap a week ago, March 22, it is still very immature soap. It will improve with age, but depending on the oils you used and %s will make a difference on the amount of lather etc. I don't know what your recipe was, but if you put it into SoapCalc and look at the properties in the "All" column it will give you a rough idea of the finished product. But don't rely on those numbers, they are guidelines only. And they don't all have the same meaning as you might think.

As to "water as % of oils" this is how much water is in the batch. It is based on the total amount of oils you use. If you use 100 grams of oil, you would use 38 grams of water to mix your lye into. 38% is not set it stone, it is subjective, but it is a good place to start. It gives you enough water to work with, but not so much that your soap is water heavy. The more water you add the more that will evaporate out in the curing process. If I were you, and I was not that long ago, just leave it at the default 38% while you learn the process and start finding your way.

Also, a note on "nourishing", soap does not sit on the skin for long, so even if there are things like vitamins that have survived the soap making process they may not be absorbed into the skin since you don't leave soap on the skin for very long, it is rinsed off, along with those vitamins. Moisturizing though - the extra oil does cling to the skin and depending on your SF value may or may not be noticeable to you after you get out of the shower.

I have only found 2 soap making "rules" that should never be broken 1) pour the lye into the water 2) you can't make soap without lye. Other than those I think I have read on this forum where someone has broken or twisted every other rule I have heard of.

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

Kansas Farm Girl, FlybyStardancer,

Thanks for the explanation. That helps. It only refers to how much water you dissolve your lye in.

I was under the impression that the oils already had water dissolved in them :wtf:.

Now I can try different oil combinations in SoapCalc and see the resulting soap properties.

A question on the definition of HP superfatting: HP superfatting is saponifying your mixture with 0% lye discount, then when it has finished saponifying, you add the superfat oil. Is this right ?

 

[FlybyStardancer]

Yes, that's exactly what you do if you want a specific oil to be your superfat in HP.

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

I am thinking of doing a 6% superfat AND a 5% lye discount.

The lye discount would be for the lye safety, and the superfat would be to get a desirable oil's properties in my soap.

I imagine it's okay to do this, right ?

I bring this up, because I haven't seen anyone mention this.

 

[Lin]

Doing so would essentially end up with a 11% superfat, which is quite high for most people. Lye discount and superfat are two terms (and can be technically divided into 2 methods) of the same result, excess oil thats not saponified. Lye discount method leaves it up to the lye what the specific oils that are not saponified are. Superfatting after the cook in hot process allows you to choose the specific oils to have as superfat. If you're going to use both methods, you need to combine them to determine the superfat when you're completely finished.

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

... If you're going to use both methods, you need to combine them to determine the superfat when you're completely finished...

Okay, so here is my calculation for a hypothetical soap. Is this the right way to calculate it ?

The hypothetical soap has 50oz of Olive Oil at 3% lye discount, and will have 2oz of Coconut Oil added to it afterwards as a superfat.

(50oz Olive Oil) x (0.134) = 6.7 oz lye at 0% lye discount

(6.7 oz lye) x (0.97) = 6.49 oz lye at 3% lye discount

Lye needed to saponify both oils at 0% lye discount:
6.7 + (2 oz Coconut Oil) x (0.190) = 7.08 oz lye

The total, including the superfat and the discount, is:
1 - (oz lye actually used) / (oz lye without superfat or discount) or
1 - (6.49 oz lye) / (7.08 oz lye) or
0.083 or 8.3%
​

The calculation is based on what was shown at this website:
http://curious-soapmaker.com/superfat-vs-lye-discount.html

 

[Gaspar Navarrete]

What would make a great basic Soap?
Olive 50%
Palm 25% (or lard)
Coconut 20%
Castor 5%
Superfat 6%

Hve fun, good luck, and don't go buying a lot of equipment now (like I did) Roy

A question, Roy ...

Would I add the castor oil as a superfat ?