Hot Process / Transparent

[peace-love-and-suds]

Every source I read says to heat oils to 135-145 or 170-180 to make hot process or transparent soap. This seems absurd. Couldn't there be a way to heat to just maybe 110 or so and cook longer?

 

[sudbubblez]

if the soap was kept at a consistent 110 it would take a day or more to cook. It can heat up hotter than that on its own in the mold; saponification is an exothermic reaction and is also sped up by heat. Cp soap can be oven processed. At 140 degrees it takes about 4 hours, at 170 degrees it takes about 2.5.

 

[peace-love-and-suds]

So what temp would you cook the soap to?

 

[sudbubblez]

If you are doing hot process you can cook it as high as 200 or more. If it volcanoes or boils, its too hot. the volcano-ing and boiling means its overheated. Its not really an exact science... it goes through stages, light trace, med trace, thick trace, then it will seem to become more fluid and separate, bring it back together with the stick blender (if it won't come back together its too hot), then it will become translucent like vaseline, zap test and its done!

If you hot process it at a low temp like 150/160 it might not even separate at all and go straight from thick trace to gel.

I don't know anything about making transparent soap other than it uses spirits and alcohols boil off at low temps like 181 degrees. Regular HP soap can be cooked at over 200 if you wanted. I measured my HP soap at 240 once.

110 degrees isn't hot process, thats a basic CP temperature.

 

[peace-love-and-suds]

I guess what had me concerned is I was under the assumption that cooking oils beyond 110-120 or so cooked some of the nutritional value for your skin out of it. But maybe I'm confusing something.

 

[sudbubblez]

The oils turn into salt during the soapmaking process. Each different oil has a high temperature that it can withstand for x amount of time before it starts to degrade. After the soap is made there are only trace amounts of oil left.

If I wanted to absorb nutrients through my skin in the form of an oil, I would rub myself down with argan or extra virgin coconut oil after I got in the shower and washed with the soap!

 

[sudbubblez]

If you are interested in nutritional value, I think you will be interested in the part that enzymes play in nutrient absorbtion. Enzymes carry the nutrients into the system, without it most the nutrients pass right through you. Those are destroyed by heat. If the oil is already in a bottle its safe to assume the enzymes have been destroyed already even if the vitamins are still there... depending on how it was extracted and prepared. Pasteurized products have no enzymes. We drink so much milk in the US and consume dairy products but have this epidemic of osteoporosis... its because the pasteurized milk doesn't contain the enzymes wich aid the body in absorbing calcium. Many people who can't tolerate cow's milk can drink raw cows milk. Also, If you make vegetable juice at home, the nutrients can go into your system directly from the stomach lining because the enzymes haven't been destroyed... bottled juice really has little to no benefit for this reason. There is lots of literature out there about this topic and the whole foods plant based diet is based on this.

 

[Guest]

unless youve sourced unrefined/processed oils, its a safe bet that the characteristics you are trying to save are already gone so feel free to add heat. most off the shelf oils are repeatedly heated way beyond their oxidizing points during the refining processes.

 

[peace-love-and-suds]

Thanks for the posts. As far as my oils go I pay top dollar for the best unrefined organic oils I can find. Everything is cold pressed minus the coconut which is wet-milled and grown on a mountain of volcanic ash with heat never even added. It is a bit more costly than the normal going rate. I probably have altogether about 200+ hours in nothing but oil and vendor research alone so that is why I was concerned.

 

[Guest]

Thanks for the posts. As far as my oils go I pay top dollar for the best unrefined organic oils I can find. Everything is cold pressed minus the coconut which is wet-milled and grown on a mountain of volcanic ash with heat never even added. It is a bit more costly than the normal going rate. I probably have altogether about 200+ hours in nothing but oil and vendor research alone so that is why I was concerned.

ha, very nice! me too! Yay~ ... in that case keep your temps low and try not to gel them!

 

[Fragola]

Every source I read says to heat oils to 135-145 or 170-180 to make hot process or transparent soap.

For hot process, you don't need to highly heat the oils before, just the soap as it is cooking.

Or you can do cold process and "rebatch" for the transparent part of the recipe.

Also, if certain oils may be heat sensitive and don't like heating, soap is certainly more stable and isn't upset if you heat it a little more.

 

[peace-love-and-suds]

So I could say, heat the oils to 100 to melt, remove from heat and trace it, then add it back to the heat once the soap is mostly saponified? Could you safely superfat after the gel phase when the temp has come down some?

 

[new12soap]

Thanks for the posts. As far as my oils go I pay top dollar for the best unrefined organic oils I can find. Everything is cold pressed minus the coconut which is wet-milled and grown on a mountain of volcanic ash with heat never even added. It is a bit more costly than the normal going rate. I probably have altogether about 200+ hours in nothing but oil and vendor research alone so that is why I was concerned.

Going to such great lengths for your oils, I think I would use them in a leave on product such as a lotion or cream, rather than a wash and rinse off product. I just can't imagine that an oil that is so delicate would be best suited for soap since the saponification process would undoubtedly destroy a lot of those prized properties. JM2C

So I could say, heat the oils to 100 to melt, remove from heat and trace it, then add it back to the heat once the soap is mostly saponified? Could you safely superfat after the gel phase when the temp has come down some?

Theoretically, yes, you can try to superfat after the cook, but that is still no guarantee that your oils or your finished soap will maintain the characteristics you are hoping for. Soap is not inert, it will change the properties of anything you add to it. Superfatting after the cook will not work for transparent soap at all, it is made with a zero superfat allowance.