Hot process soap making - soap getting too thick/hard

[Saltynuts]

I go loooong periods of time between making soap, and it seems like I forget stuff every time. But I just made some, mostly coconut oil and palm kernel oil, with some avocado oil as well.

Anyways, I usually stick blend a ton, and keep going until I don't get any "zaps" when doing the tongue zap test. Then add my (real cheap amazon) colors and fragrance, blend some more with stick blender, and then as soon as I have blended that in put it into the soap molds. And I say "put" it into the molds rather than pour it in because by that time its a very thick, hardening quick, mess. So it takes more time scooping it out and patting it into the molds, and I waste some because its a lot harder to scoop it all out than it is just to pour it out if it were softer/more liquid.

So I'd really rather just pour it in while its still in liquid form. And that leads me to my question - if I have blended it a TON with my stick blender, any problem pouring it in the mold while its still in liquid form? I mean, even before "trace" or whatever, and even before the lye has completely reacted. As long as I have blended it enough, the lye should be plenty mixed in with the oil so that the mix ratios are very much consistent throughout, and the lye can just keep reacting with the oils in the molds, correct? Or are there specific reasons I need to let it cook longer?

Thanks!

 

[DeeAnna]

....So I'd really rather just pour it in while its still in liquid form. And that leads me to my question - if I have blended it a TON with my stick blender, any problem pouring it in the mold while its still in liquid form? I mean, even before "trace" or whatever, and even before the lye has completely reacted....

You're doing a good job of explaining how to do cold process soap making.

Only thing is you don't need to stick blend a TON as you say you're doing. If you keep doing that, you're going to find some, maybe most, of your batches will get too thick far too fast with a cold process method.

This also applies to hot process soap making. You don't need to stick blend (SB) an HP batch as much or for as long as you say you are.

If you take a more methodical and relaxed approach, you might gain better control of your soap making and perhaps find your HP soap stays softer and easier to handle when putting it into molds. Not to mention increasing the life of your stick blender and saving your patience.

So try stick blending less and observing and hand stirring more. I suggest SBing a couple of seconds, hand stirring 30-60 seconds, SBing another 2-3 seconds, hand stirring, etc. I might stick blend a total of 10-20 seconds per batch.

 

[Saltynuts]

^^^^ thank you DeeAnna, will give it a try! I used the stick blender so much because one time I tried to make soap without using the stick blender at all, just hand stirring, and it came out AWFUL, I concluded that because I didn't use a stick blender the lye water and oil did not mix properly, that is why it was so bad (and wondered how on Earth people used to make soap worth a darm before blenders were invented haha). But maybe it was something else (or maybe just using it a couple of seconds at a time, no more than 10-20 seconds per batch, would make it come out perfect!). So I'll give it a try!

Curious, did you also have any thoughts about pouring the soap into the mold earlier (when it is not fully saponified) rather than later, as long as I've stirred it (mostly by hand!) a lot? Saponification can still go on in the mold correct (which I think is the idea behind cold process)?

Thanks so much!!!

 

[artemis]

I think I am misreading something. How are you stuck blending until there is no zap? With CP, it takes 24-48 hours at a minimum to get to no zap, right? And if it's HP, it gets too think to stick blend at some point, right? Which part am I confusing?

 

[Saltynuts]

I think I am misreading something. How are you stuck blending until there is no zap? With CP, it takes 24-48 hours at a minimum to get to no zap, right? And if it's HP, it gets too think to stick blend at some point, right? Which part am I confusing?

Yes, EXACTLY right artemis! So I do hot process. I let it cook and cook (and keep stick blending, subject to the following) until there is no zap. By that no-zap time it is a super think/almost solid mess - the stick blending doesn't even work anymore. So I have to basically spoon out all of the hard stuff and push it into the soap mold. And its not really a cohesive bar at that point.

So I'd like to have it complete its saponification in full before it gets too thick/hard, so I can just pour it into the mold while its still liquid (but already fully saponified) and thus I lose very little soap (and its much easier). Same thing if I want to superfat with a particular and have that particular superfat survive - needs to be hot process and the main oils fully saponified before I add the superfat oil, then after I add the superfat oil to the already-fully-saponified soap I can stir it in and pour into a mold, very cleanly (i.e. where the soap/superfat are still very liquidy and not hard and thick).

Hope that makes sense, and thanks for any help!!!

 

[artemis]

I don't do HP because I like to just mix it and pour it and walk away.

However after reading HP posts on the forum this long, I have to agree with @DeeAnna -- I don't think you're supposed to stick blend that much, just at the beginning to make sure everything is combined. It's the heat that helps it get through the saponification process. I would think there is occasional stirring involved, too. Also, I'm pretty sure most people are adding some sort of liquid at the end to loosen things up a bit before pouring

She is also right that the alternative you are describing is Cold Process soap: combine oils & lye. Stick blend until at trace. Then, pour into the mold. Voilà.

I am sure that my pour () explanation of HP will draw some HP experts to explain things much better than I can.

 

[Becky1024]

I do both HP and CP. For HP I recommend stick blending like DeeAnna explains. Then as it is cooking stir every once in awhile with a spoon. Are you adding sodium lactate or yogurt after it’s done cooking? They help with the fluidity and make it easier to get into the mold.

 

[DeeAnna]

Cold process is where you bring the soap batter to a stable emulsion, pour the batter into a mold, and then allow the batter to finish saponifying in the mold. 1. Emulsify, 2. put in mold, 3: saponify

Hot process is where you bring the soap batter to a stable emulsion, continue to heat it in the soap pot until it fully saponifies, and then put the finished, hot soap into a mold. 1. Emulsify, 2: saponify, 3: put in mold.

And there is the gray area in the middle of these two extremes. There's no rule that says you MUST fully cook an HP batch before putting it in the mold.

I know some soap makers put the soap into the mold when it's at the right texture, rather than stress about getting it fully cooked in the soap pot. If the soap isn't fully saponified when it goes into the mold, it will finish saponifying in the mold, just like a "normal" cold process batch.

Either way, the key thing is to get the soap to a stable emulsion before proceeding further, however you want to proceed. Beginning soap makers look for "trace" which is a visible clue that the batter is emuslified.

More experienced soap makers learn the signs of "emulsion" which happens before visible "trace". Knowing when to stop at emulsion is handy especially if the maker wants a little more time to divide the batter and color each portion differently to make a swirled design.

 

[Saltynuts]

Thank you all! I will make a batch soon trying the much reduced stick blender approach! So let me ask this - I want to make a soap that has a super fat as a particular fat, not the general fats going into my soap, but a particular fat that I want to add at the end to make sure its not eaten up by the lye monster. Is it possible to do a hot process soap (I would imagine it would be close to impossible in a cold process soap) that cooks the soap mix fully so saponification is fully complete, but has the soap mix still fluid at that point, so I can add the super fat, blend briefly, and then "pour" the still liquidy soap mix into the molds, rather it being super thick at that point and having to pack it in? If it is possible, maybe the key is to use more water in the mix?

Thanks!!!

 

[AliOop]

Yes, you can do that, but just know that until saponification is complete, the lye is still active and can still saponify whatever oils it chooses.

 

[Saltynuts]

Got it AliOop! Yep, that is why I was wanting not to add it until basically 100% of the lye had reacted with the (other) oils and the chemical reaction was complete. The problem is, by that time though, in my experience the soap is a thick mess and does not pour into the mold at all, you have to use a spoon, scooper, etc. and scoop it out and pack it into the mold, which generally results in a really crummy looking bar of soap. So I was hoping there was some way to do it so the soap mix stays rather like a liquid until saponification is complete, so that I can add my superfat and immediately pour into the mold while the whole thing is still rather liquidy. Sound like a water premium might be one thing to try.

Thanks!