Hot Process Re-Melt Before Pour

[DeeAnna]

I accept your point about pure soap being a type of lipid. I stand corrected.

That said, it's pretty clear you are concentrating far more on putting me and the others down with fake apologies and sarcastic attitude than you are in understanding the answers to your question. It would be better if you spent this determination and energy instead on learning about the phase changes of soap as made.

 

[nsmar4211]

You have managed to insult the intelligence of the best contributors we have on this board. What do you hope to accomplish? You asked a question and just because you disagree with the answers does not mean they are wrong. Considering your lack of posts, I'm inclined to believe you are at the beginner end of the spectrum. Your rudeness makes people disinclined to help you-and you won't learn from the array of knowledge here.

However, I will give you one more "benefit of the doubt" explanation in case someone who will learn reads this.

The description of your experiment and what you're calling "melting" makes me think you misunderstand the phases of HP. You cannot compare melt and pour soap (which usually isn't even soap as per federal guidelines) behavior to HP or CP

Before starting the explanation, I do wonder why are you whisking by hand for 30 minutes? Is there a reason for not using a stick blender? By whisking by hand, the batch is more likely to separate into an oily foamy mess-which is what you got.




The "mashed potato" stage is not the final stage of HP. With my recipe, that's only 3/4 of the way through the entire process. With other recipes I've used, that happens halfway through the entire process.

Again, the bubbling liquid, foam, and the soapy bath is NOT melted soap or the final stage of HP. That's separation. If you were to stick blend that back together, you will go back to the mashed potato stage....which again, is not the final stage. The "foam" does not happen on completed batches.

The final stage of HP is actually vaseline-the uncolored batter looks like thick translucent vaseline. As DeeAnna tried to explain, that's the gel stage. Mashed potato stage is not gel stage-zap or no zap. Soap does not have to gel to pass the zap test so zap is irrelevant here in discussion of "melting".

At the vaseline point, it's "melted". It can go no further in terms of processing and will only dry out and eventually burn. Your batch didn't get to that point, so, it was not a complete batch. Or it went to that point and blew past it due to the high heat and re seprated. Either way, it is not as good as it could be.

Here are the stages my HP goes through:

-Liquid
-Thin pudding
-Thick pudding
-Greasy oily bubbly mashed potatoes (in the crockpot, the batch turns itself over from the edges in)
-Regular mashed potatoes
-Vaseline (at which point it's time to mold, stop here)

If you continue to (over)cook,
-Vaseline with dried white chunky stuff on the sides and starting on the top-get it out of the cooking container now!
-Horrible crumbly dried out playdough stage (toss the batch and try again)
-Burned mess and a ruined crockpot



If you're trying for a smooth top, add more liquid and get the soap into the mold as soon as it hits the vaseline. The hotter it is in the mold, and the hotter it stays in the mold, the flatter/smoother the top will be. I can trim my HP bars down to a cold processed smooth looking top with one swipe of a potato peeler if I desire.

What do I have to back this up? Hundreds of HP batches. I stopped recording them at #150 and that was several months ago.

Look up "fluid HP" and you will find many method of having a smoother pour when doing HP.

 

[Ivanstein]

I have one question...

Why would NASA be interested in the melting point of soap?

Soap is not rocket science. I can say this with credibility, because I am a rocket scientist. Seriously. I am.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I think it is going to be something to do with heat shielding using a non-meting material. But as it was written, it did seem to suggest that any and all new discoveries should be sent to NASA.

 

[earlene]

I have one question...

Why would NASA be interested in the melting point of soap?

Soap is not rocket science. I can say this with credibility, because I am a rocket scientist. Seriously. I am.

Not that I adhere to the notion that they are interested, but perhaps the idea of using the Tadelakt method of sealing (plaster) walls or surfaces for space travel?

 

[topofmurrayhill]

So your point all along was that I was right?

Cheers then.

No, you weren't right.

Soap doesn't melt into a liquid phase. It melts into a liquid crystal phase that's known in the industry as "neat" soap.

In HP, the soap is always melted. When you were trying to melt it in your experiment, it was already melted the whole time. The transition to neat soap happens at roughly 140-160 F or higher depending on the water content. Less water, higher melting point.

The characteristics of neat soap, as everyone knows, is that it doesn't flow very freely and is subject to a rather an abrupt transition to solid "curd" soap due to moisture loss (see melting point above) and drop in temperature.

So, by heating your soap to near destruction, you didn't discover that you were right. You discovered that what you believed was mistaken and unfeasible, as everyone told you.

And by the way, you are a jerk.

 

[Ivanstein]

...
And by the way, you are a jerk.

The question remains...

Did you inform NASA of this discovery?

 

[dixiedragon]

Does NASA stand for National Aeronautics and Saponification Administration?

Because that would be awesome.

 

[Ivanstein]

Does NASA stand for National Aeronautics and Saponification Administration?

Because that would be awesome.

This.
+1...00000!

 

[Arimara]

No, you weren't right.

Soap doesn't melt into a liquid phase. It melts into a liquid crystal phase that's known in the industry as "neat" soap.

In HP, the soap is always melted. When you were trying to melt it in your experiment, it was already melted the whole time. The transition to neat soap happens at roughly 140-160 F or higher depending on the water content. Less water, higher melting point.

The characteristics of neat soap, as everyone knows, is that it doesn't flow very freely and is subject to a rather an abrupt transition to solid "curd" soap due to moisture loss (see melting point above) and drop in temperature.

So, by heating your soap to near destruction, you didn't discover that you were right. You discovered that what you believed was mistaken and unfeasible, as everyone told you.

And by the way, you are a jerk.

Thank you for beating me to the punch.

 

[cmzaha]

Does NASA stand for National Aeronautics and Saponification Administration?

Because that would be awesome.

Thank you for a good laugh

So Andre what did you accomplish? A soap that will not pour fluid after you cook it to death? I now melt down scraps in the micro to make floating soaps, and it works the same as yours. It bubbles up and has to be stirred down, the only thing I do not get is a layer of foam, but I do get a floating soap without having to whip the soap

 

[Saponista]

All I seem to have achieved by reading this thread is that I'm not very fond of Andre

 

[DeeAnna]

Calling people names is inappropriate, and that is doubly true for a forum like SMF that prides itself on being welcoming and inclusive. Name calling does not contribute to the facts, it does not lighten the tone of the conversation in a kind way, and it reduces the chances of effective communication in the future.

 

[Soapmaker145]

I think the moderators need to consider closing this thread if this moron comes back. His "method" doesn't pass the smell test. He is just looking for attention to justify his existence. Ignorance, stupidity and arrogance make for a dangerous combination and this guy is not interested in learning. The risk we run is for an inexperienced newbie to read his posts, actually try his imaginary process and end up with a burned mass or even worse a nasty burn.

I'm really proud of the professionalism of the forum members and the courtesy they extended to an undeserving idiot.

 

[shunt2011]

We have been watching the posts. He hasn't been back since the 22nd. So if we just let it go he probably accomplished what he had planned then snuck back from wherever he cam from.