Help with recipe

[jenlwhi2]

Ok, this is my first time to make liquid soap. I make cold process goat milk soap, so now I'm wanting to add liquid goat milk soap. My goal is to use a similar recipe (same ingredients) as my cold process and no unnatural additives. But, I can't figure this out!!
Here's the recipe I attempted:
4 oz olive oil
4 oz lard
2 oz coconut oil
3.75 oz goat milk
1.3 oz Koh
. 2 oz Naoh

(I know with lard and goat milk my soap will be cloudy and that's not an issue for me, I don't mind that.)
I mixed the lye with milk, then added the oils. After stick blending these were left to cold process on the cabinet. They became nice and translucent overnight. So, I've been trying small amounts diluting, but, I can't get it diluted right! I think more lye was needed? I slowly added water in canning jars, heated till the paste was diluted but there's always a foamy creamy layer. Then. I added a lye mixture to my diluted liquid and it really helped however I think i got too much because it was slightly burning. I figure that whole batch is really not any good and I need to start over. But, can y'all help me figure out how to redo it? I'm not even 100% sire what my outcome should look like?
Thanks so much!

 

[Saranac]

What SF% were you hoping for?

Based on your comment that there is a "foamy creamy layer, " I think you're dealing with too high of a SF. I see 3% SF recommended as a safe SF for LS, but since you are using goats milk (which will add fat), you could go lower.

I ran your recipe through a soap calculator, and based on the ration of NaOH to KOH, your recipe doesn't seem to have enough caustic for a 5% SF of JUST the oils. The milk is going to bump that higher.

 

[jenlwhi2]

That's the conclusion I came to. I don't want to have to neutralize so maybe if I did 2 % SF (plus the goat milk will bump it up). Would that be a good amount to shoot for? I just don't want to have to do all kinds of add ins to the final product. Maybe that's an unrealistic expectation! Thank u for your help

 

[Saranac]

Which calculator are you using?

I would probably shoot for something in the realm of 0 to 2% SF, knowing that the milk would add fat.

Edited to say, you could, for future batches, skim the excess fat from the top if that bothers you too much.

 

[jenlwhi2]

Would doing 0 sf make if feel harsh on the skin? I want it to be nice and creamy and soothing like my bars are.

And I used soap calc (but not til after I had already made the paste haha) real smart!

 

[Saranac]

Would doing 0 sf make if feel harsh on the skin? I want it to be nice and creamy and soothing like my bars are.

I formulate my LS with a 0% SF--and that's without milk or any other ingredient that will add additional fat--and the result is a paste that does not zap (no excess caustic). Even so, after dilution, if you look closely, you can still see a small amount of whispy oil on the surface. In other words, even with a 0% SF, there is still unreacted oil in my finished product.

As to whether or not it will make your recipe harsh--that's up to you and your skin. Your recipe looks good to me, and I would be 100% okay with using a 0% SF plus the addition of milk. But only your skin will know for sure. I would suggest that if you're unsure, start with the 2% you mentioned and see how it feels. Like I said, if there is too much fat floating on top, you can skim it off!

 

[jenlwhi2]

Ok that is great to know! Maybe I'll go right in the middle and so a 1% haha u don't want to be wasting too much with skimming off but if it's just a tad that would be ok. With milk and lard...ahould my final product still be translucent or more milky? I'm really not sure at what point I say 'oh that's perfect' because I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I know j probably sound so inexperienced, I am!

ok that is great to know! Maybe i'll go right in the middle and so a 1% haha u don't want to be wasting too much with skimming off but if it's just a tad that would be ok. With milk and lard...ahould my final product still be translucent or more milky? I'm really not sure at what point i say 'oh that's perfect' because i'm not sure what i'm looking for. I know j probably sound so inexperienced, i am!

Ok that is great to know! Maybe I'll go right in the middle and so a 1% haha u don't want to be wasting too much with skimming off but if it's just a tad that would be ok. With milk and lard...ahould my final product still be translucent or more milky? I'm really not sure at what point I say 'oh that's perfect' because I'm not sure what I'm looking for. I know j probably sound so inexperienced, I am!

This is what my diluted soap is looking like right now with added koh flakes.

 

[Saranac]

It's hard to tell from the picture, but could some of the top layer be foam from mixing?

As for clarity, I was never able to get clear liquid soap when using olive oil (too much palmitic acid and unsaponifiables). Many on the forum have no problem with it, but for some reason it never worked for me; I prefer high oleic sunflower for clarity.

With 40% lard, I don't think it could ever be clear, but give it a week or so (undisturbed) and see how it looks.

 

[jenlwhi2]

Oops didn't mean to send this picture twice. There's like 3 layers going on. I think the top is bubbles from mixing. Then there's a translucent at the bottom and creamy layer in the middle.

Here's what the dilution looks like without KOH added in.

Here's what the dilution looks like without KOH added in.

That bottom layer is like water basically.
Ok, I guess I'll just need tibplay around with it. It's hard since leaving it to sequester changes it. I keep thinking it finally looks good then when I come back it will be separated. Grr

 

[Saranac]

I keep thinking it finally looks good then when I come back it will be separated. Grr

I think that's just part of the learning curve with LS! When I put your recipe through a soap calculator with a duel lye option, I'm coming up with a SF of somewhere in the neighborhood of 22-30%--which is too high for the LS to solubilize.

If I enter in a 22% SF with a purity level for the KOH of 100%, I get exactly what you listed: 0.2 oz NaOH, and 1.3 oz KOH. Generally, it's safe to assume that KOH is only 90% pure, which results in, for your formula, about a 29% SF.

If I enter in a 3% SF with a purity level for the KOH of 90%, I get: 0.25 oz NaOH, and 1.8 oz KOH.

Without knowing how much extra KOH you added, it will be hard to determine what this batch needs. . . so maybe run another attempt?!

For now, I'd skip the NaOH--most people around the forum have seen little benefit in adding it to a LS.

In SoapCalc, select the KOH option and check the box next to 90% KOH. Run your recipe with a 2% SF, and replace the water for your lye solution with goat milk. I think that will give you a great place to start!

 

[jenlwhi2]

I think that's just part of the learning curve with LS! When I put your recipe through a soap calculator with a duel lye option, I'm coming up with a SF of somewhere in the neighborhood of 22-30%--which is too high for the LS to solubilize.

If I enter in a 22% SF with a purity level for the KOH of 100%, I get exactly what you listed: 0.2 oz NaOH, and 1.3 oz KOH. Generally, it's safe to assume that KOH is only 90% pure, which results in, for your formula, about a 29% SF.

If I enter in a 3% SF with a purity level for the KOH of 90%, I get: 0.25 oz NaOH, and 1.8 oz KOH.

Without knowing how much extra KOH you added, it will be hard to determine what this batch needs. . . so maybe run another attempt?!

For now, I'd skip the NaOH--most people around the forum have seen little benefit in adding it to a LS.

In SoapCalc, select the KOH option and check the box next to 90% KOH. Run your recipe with a 2% SF, and replace your dilution water with goat milk. I think that will give you a great place to start!

I will try That! Thank you so much!

 

[Saranac]

Thank you so much!

You'rr welcome!

I just realized that I "misspoke" in my last post. . . . I edited it, but I want to make sure you see it. I wrote, "Run your recipe with a 2% SF, and replace your dilution water with goat milk." That's wrong! What I meant was that you should replace the water for your lye solution with goat milk. Strictly speaking, the dilution water is what you thin the finished paste with, and that should always be water--unless you want to work with preservatives.

Sorry about that!