Hi, I just washed my hair with Coconut oil Castile. Liquid soap. The texture of my hair is now waxy and not soft! Can anyone tell me what I can add to make soft ‘clean’ hair please?
Help with hair
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Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
When using lye-based shampoo, it's important to get every last trace of soap residue out. Rinse with increasingly cool water until it is as cold as you can handle. Follow up with an apple cider vinegar rinse. I use 1 oz ACV + 15 oz water. You may need more. Leave on if you prefer. The ACV smell dissipates. Or gently rub your hair and scalp for a minute or so and then rinse out.
Be aware -- if this is your first time using lye-based shampoo, there may be an adjustment period. Chagrin Valley Soap & Salve has more information:
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LYE-BASED SHAMPOO
I use 100% Coconut Oil LS for laundry. The same process applies, except I add 1/4 cup White Vinegar to the rinse cycle. You will know if you didn't get ALL the soap residue out when your whites are stiff and dingy looking.
I sometimes use 100% Coconut Oil LS in foamers.
Dilution Rate for LS: 40% soap (paste) to 60% water
Dilution Rate for Foamers: 1 oz LS to 3 oz water (X 2 for 8 oz foamer)
For a more conditioning shampoo, try 50% coconut oil + 40% liquid oil of choice + 10% castor oil.
My friends & family favorite Hair & Body LS is 50/50 Lard and PKO. My personal fave:
ZANY'S FLAXSEED SHAMPOO
ETA: OOPS! I see @AliOop got in before me! Her advice is well taken. This post belongs in a new thread in the Liquid Soap forum.
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artemis
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There are a lot of people here who just can't use lye based soaps, liquid or otherwise on their hair. You can learn more by searching the forum for shampoo bars. Even though the threads you get will be about bar soap, the experiences reported apply. For some, it's drying and breaking hair that no amount of time or vinegar can fix. For others there is a waxy build up which may be related to the hardness of your water.
Those who have trouble with lye base hair soap often have better luck with syndets. That's another term you could search for more info.
There is even a new product out there called syndopour that makes experimenting with syndets a lot easier. Try this thread for more info on that: Thread 'Syndopour shampoo syndet base testing' Syndopour shampoo syndet base testing
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
There's a reason why that is so.
SHORT STORY: When I first joined in 2017 even the mention of making lye-based shampoo bars and liquid shampoo was FORBIDDEN. As a consequence, I was pilloried unmercifully for offering input. My posts were abruptly deleted, as were Newbies' posts like this one. SMF members were in danger of being banned if they admitted to using lye-based shampoo. There are quite a few here who do but they are not all that forth-coming although a few courageously "fess-up" when the subject comes up.
It took a long time for SMF to get to where we are today. Both syndets and lye-based shampoo are allowed to be discussed -- just like on any other forum/group I've been on since 2004. It's a good thing! Many soapers outside of SMF offer lye-based shampoo bars online and at markets and events. They are popular. The 3 wholesale customers I had over 10 years+ sold shampoo bars. All were good sellers.
While I agree that some people can't use them, I think it's sad when a Newbie who wants to know how to make them is side-lined into making syndets without first trying a natural shampoo or bar. After reading horror stories about how soap is drying and breaking hair that no amount of time or vinegar can fix, I would go that direction too if I didn't know better.
Speaking just for me, I didn't learn how to make soap to go back to using synthetics/detergents on my skin and hair. For one thing, why would I do that when I can buy the same thing, i.e., that kind of shampoo, right off the shelf, for less money? Just the investment in cost for ingredients and time makes no sense to me.
It took a long time for SMF to get to where we are today. Both syndets and lye-based shampoo are allowed to be discussed -- just like on any other forum/group I've been on since 2004.
It's a SOAP Making Forum, afterall!
artemis
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Ok. I have been here for a while and know full well about the controversy. A newbie should be given both sides of the story and then trusted to make an educated decision about whether or not to use lye based "shampoo" on their hair on their own.
It is likewise, as you say, sad that when an opposing point of view is mentioned, that you would try to talk me down instead of letting the point stand. I am not sidelining anyone into anything, merely directing a person to more information.
It is likewise, as you say, sad that when an opposing point of view is mentioned, that you would try to talk me down instead of letting the point stand. I am not sidelining anyone into anything, merely directing a person to more information.
Could be a couple different things. First is too much superfat, it can leave a oily/waxy residue and no amount of vinegar or rinse technique will remove it.
Could be soap scum, especially if you have hard water. if you do, your soap could benefit from a chelator. I'll let someone else explain that, I don't really use them.
The high PH of lye soap lifts the cuticle on the hair, leaving a rough feeling. A acidic rinse like diluted vinegar helps the cuticle lay back flat. For those who get damage from lye soap (like me) its this opening and closing of the cuticle that causes the damage, it can take a long time for it to accumulate and you may not realize you have damage until its too late.
Castile soap is quite low cleansing, the few times I tried it on my hair it was awful. You might like a solid bar with a more balanced recipe better.
I have one recipe I quite like. Though I can't use lye soap for any length of time, I have a skin condition on my scalp that occasionally flares up and lye soap doesn't irritate it so it can heal quicker.
if you are interested in trying a solid bar before making your own, I've heard good things about Natural Shampoo Bars
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
If I may add a few comments here. I have spent a year formulating shampoo bars for my friend (thin straight hair) and myself (full, slightly curly and heavily damaged). Nothing I read worked for me.
I was determined to make the lye shampoo bar work as I didn’t want to deal with any of the fine powdery synthetic powders to make a syndet bar. Even with a good mask I worried it would get into my lungs.
I have hard water as well so started adding 2% citric acid to the lye water but the vinegar rinse just made my hair super dry. I finally settled on a recipe for myself and add honey then using a conditioner bar/conditioner I make with a touch of hair oil.
My hair is now healthy and hydrated. It has repaired decades of damage. It may take time but it is very worth it in the end.
I was determined to make the lye shampoo bar work as I didn’t want to deal with any of the fine powdery synthetic powders to make a syndet bar. Even with a good mask I worried it would get into my lungs.
I have hard water as well so started adding 2% citric acid to the lye water but the vinegar rinse just made my hair super dry. I finally settled on a recipe for myself and add honey then using a conditioner bar/conditioner I make with a touch of hair oil.
My hair is now healthy and hydrated. It has repaired decades of damage. It may take time but it is very worth it in the end.
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Good to know! Thank you!
Maybe it was just me. I also felt if I was going to sell shampoos bars I definitely did not want to deal with the sticky mess.
Being a retired cosmetologist I will still stick to my convictions of not using lye-based soap for shampoo, and certainly not risk selling it. While I will admit some get away with soap used for hair I will say the vast majority most likely do not, on a regular basis. As I have done before I will refer back to the Wynn lawsuit. While it is hard to find his original ingredient list I looked it up when his system first came out, the product he was sued over was lye-based Apricot Kernel Oil based. When he settled, instead of losing in court the actual ingredient list disappeared. Over my span of 30+ years and my mom's 60+ yrs in the business I saw a lot of hair damage and a lot of it was from soap damage.
My opinion is if you want to use it on yourself go for it, do not risk selling it. You cause damage to someone's long beautiful hair that has taken years to grow they will not be happy when they have to cut it off. Short hair on the other hand if usually trimmed fairly regularly so the damge is trimmed off. Something to think about.
My opinion is if you want to use it on yourself go for it, do not risk selling it. You cause damage to someone's long beautiful hair that has taken years to grow they will not be happy when they have to cut it off. Short hair on the other hand if usually trimmed fairly regularly so the damge is trimmed off. Something to think about.
I am also one of the "few" people who can use a lye based soap on their hair. I have been trying to formulate a syndet bar for my daughter who has a cochlear implant. She is able to use one of my recipes and she can also use the Syndapour but it leaves her with bed head, which on hair that is only a half inch long is weird.
@contrinokathy, you have given me a couple of ideas to think about for just formulating a different lye based soap for her. I am mostly concerned for the future...I know she will continue to make soap but not so sure about syndet bars. It might be the ingredients of the soap bar I make that irritates the implant, as she was able to use soap prior to her operation.
I actually hate to make the syndet bars and even though I wear a mask, I am sure I still get some of the powders in my lungs. So that might be the answer to her future when I am no longer able to provide soap and syndets for her. I am so thankful for this forum. It may not solve my problem but at least there is hope.
@contrinokathy, you have given me a couple of ideas to think about for just formulating a different lye based soap for her. I am mostly concerned for the future...I know she will continue to make soap but not so sure about syndet bars. It might be the ingredients of the soap bar I make that irritates the implant, as she was able to use soap prior to her operation.
I actually hate to make the syndet bars and even though I wear a mask, I am sure I still get some of the powders in my lungs. So that might be the answer to her future when I am no longer able to provide soap and syndets for her. I am so thankful for this forum. It may not solve my problem but at least there is hope.
I have incredibly long hair and my hair is healthy and vibrant.
Formulating a lye based shampoo bar can take a long time. Coconut oil can be very irritating - palm kernel oil and babassu oil also have cleansing attributes and are less irritating. I found many of the recipes online were not good. Dried out my hair and didn’t help much and the vinegar rinse made things worse. I kept making different changes to increase the benefits to my hair.
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PSA for anyone working with powdered detergents, you really need a proper respiratory and not just a face mask.
You can find particulate respirators at any hardware store for not too much.
You can find particulate respirators at any hardware store for not too much.
But the simple fact is, no matter the soap, the ph is high that is why perm solutions are hard on hair, it comes down to ph. You simply cannot change the ph of soap. Yes, some soap can be more gentle than others but the ph is still high. There are wonderful quality shampoos on the market, just do not close your mind and think handmade soap is the end-all answer. Some folks cannot even use handmade lye-based soaps on their skin, no matter what formula it is. In all my years of selling and I sold a lot of soap, I never closed my mind and thought my soap or any artesian soap was the best thing on earth and good for all skin conditions.
FYI, I have severe eczema and sometimes go to syndet bars when my eczema takes a turn for the worse, and will go back to making syndet shampoo bars.
Damage does not happen overnight and can take a year or more, but when it shows up on long luscious hair it is too late. You cannot fix damaged dead hair, other than by cutting it off.
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Lauriertje
Active Member
Do you have a recipe?
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Good for you for wanting to make a lye-based shampoo bar!
Haha. I'm not @contrinokathy but I'm here to tell you that any Shampoo Bar recipe may not work for you. Notice that she "spent a year formulating"!
Be aware -- if this is your first time using lye-based shampoo, there may be an adjustment period. Chagrin Valley Soap & Salve has more information:
WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW ABOUT LYE-BASED SHAMPOO
My advice is to first educate yourself about using a lye-based shampoo bar. As for formulating, there is good infomation on that sight about oils, essential oils and other additives that are benefical to hair. The time you spend there, learning all you can, will be time well spent in the long run.
I am able to use CP soap on my hair, but it does way better with a syndet bar. Many people’s hair or skin simply cannot tolerate the high pH of lye soap at all - period, full stop. The type of rinse, temperature of water, or phase of the moon does not change this.
My husband used my lye soap on his hair for years, until it quit working for him due to skin conditions. He has to use a low pH shampoo or pay severe consequences. And believe me, he and I are dedicated to using the most “natural” ingredients possible to lower his toxin load. If there were a solution for him other than syndets, I would have found it.
All that to say, I don’t mind people preferring lye soap, or preferring syndets. I do mind when people on either side of the issue are spoken to and treated as if they didn’t try hard enough, or aren’t good enough formulators, to make something work the way someone else thinks it should.
Most of us started soaping to find solutions and alternatives to products that are supposed to work for everyone - but don’t. We all have different solutions that work for our needs, and that’s ok.
My husband used my lye soap on his hair for years, until it quit working for him due to skin conditions. He has to use a low pH shampoo or pay severe consequences. And believe me, he and I are dedicated to using the most “natural” ingredients possible to lower his toxin load. If there were a solution for him other than syndets, I would have found it.
All that to say, I don’t mind people preferring lye soap, or preferring syndets. I do mind when people on either side of the issue are spoken to and treated as if they didn’t try hard enough, or aren’t good enough formulators, to make something work the way someone else thinks it should.
Most of us started soaping to find solutions and alternatives to products that are supposed to work for everyone - but don’t. We all have different solutions that work for our needs, and that’s ok.
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I totally understand that you're doing what is right for your hair. And I also understand "there is bad soap everywhere". I don't see how it can be insulting to any soap maker here unless they decide to be insulted. You've not made an insult to anyone. So, everything is okay.
To me, the clear implication was that the only reason some people couldn’t use lye soap on their hair, is because they are using “bad soap.” That was the context of the discussion. And since most of us here make our own soap, and many of us have tried lots of formulations, I was quite taken aback by that.
I’m not seeing what else that statement could have been intended to convey, but apparently something else was intended, and I missed it. My sincere apologies!
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