Help with Dog Shampoo formula please

[Feelin' Soapy]

Now that Gus the Bernedoodle is part of our family, I'm wanting to make some dog shampoo. I'm planning to use a formula from Humblebee and Me (Lottie's Dog Shampoo) with some minor changes:
* In the formula below, I've substituted SLSa for the SLS because that will lower the pH so I shouldn't need to add citric acid as in the original formula.
* I'd also like to add some Neem oil. How much would you suggest, and what ingredient should I take that percentage from?
* Will the Neem oil smell unpleasant and need either some EO or FO to mask it?

Here's my formula:
30% Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate (SCI)
20% Cocamidopropyl Betaine (CAPB)
27% Sodium Lauryl Sulfoacetate (SLSa)
5% BTMS-50
5% cetyl alcohol
10% cocoa butter
2.5% panthenol powder
0.5% Germall Plus

Thanks for any input and suggestions you can offer!

 

[AliOop]

Neem oil does smell very strong, and most people find it quite unpleasant. Dogs may not mind the smell, but humans probably will. However, covering it up with an FO or EO could easily overwhelm a dog's extremely sensitive olfactory system. For that reason, I'd consider 5% neem powder rather than oil for this formulation. You could take it out of the SCI or the SLSa, or split it between the two.

 

[cmzaha]

I attached a file of the dog soap I made and had folks swear by it. By the time I made it, I no longer had a dog but my daughter had a dog with skin problems and I originally made it for her dog and found it worked well for her, so I took it to market. We did not find the Karanja oil smell as strong as neem but I did add in a tad of neem powder with other additives.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

Neem oil does smell very strong, and most people find it quite unpleasant. Dogs may not mind the smell, but humans probably will. However, covering it up with an FO or EO could easily overwhelm a dog's extremely sensitive olfactory system. For that reason, I'd consider 5% neem powder rather than oil for this formulation. You could take it out of the SCI or the SLSa, or split it between the two.

Thank you! I didn't know there was such a thing as neem powder. Is it odorless? I like your suggestion because I did want to keep it unscented but didn't want to make Gus smell worse after his bath!

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

I attached a file of the dog soap I made and had folks swear by it. By the time I made it, I no longer had a dog but my daughter had a dog with skin problems and I originally made it for her dog and found it worked well for her, so I took it to market. We did not find the Karanja oil smell as strong as neem but I did add in a tad of neem powder with other additives.

Thank you for sharing your formula! Wouldn't the pH on this be too high since it is a lye-based soap rather than syndet? I only use syndet on my own hair, so I'm assuming the same goes for dogs.

 

[DeeAnna]

Thank you for sharing your formula! Wouldn't the pH on this be too high since it is a lye-based soap rather than syndet? I only use syndet on my own hair, so I'm assuming the same goes for dogs.

If a dog got washed often, I think I'd stick with a syndet based cleanser.

If a dog gets washed only a couple-three times a year (like my dogs after they roll in unforgivably stinky stuff), then soap is okay. IMO, their coats can tolerate an occasional dose of lye-based soap.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Dogs have a higher pH than human skin - so there's that. I make and use lye based soap on my dogs - and wash them about once a fortnight or three weeks-ish. Just depends how intolerably stinky they get : )
I use neem oil at 5% of the recipe but I do also use some Eos in low dosage to cover up the smell. It doesn't 'cover up' so much as make it more bearable. Do some research if you use fragrance, because there are some that are absolute no-nos for dogs: Is My Diffuser Poisoning My Pet? 10 Essential Oils That Are Toxic to Dogs and it varies from source to source, so check across several sources. In any case - make sure you don;lt use as much as a human soap.

 

[Feelin' Soapy]

@DeeAnna That makes sense. And if bathing Gus is anything like bathing my previous dogs, it's an ordeal I wouldn't want to do very often!

@KiwiMoose I'm aware of the many EOs that are said to be toxic to dogs, and I'm surprised at how many commercial shampoos contain them (tea tree in particular)

A bit of good smellin' something might be a nice addition at 2-3%, but I'm not sure which might be the best choice. Just because something's not toxic, doesn't mean a pooch wouldn't dislike smelling it all day.

 

[KiwiMoose]

@DeeAnna That makes sense. And if bathing Gus is anything like bathing my previous dogs, it's an ordeal I wouldn't want to do very often!

@KiwiMoose I'm aware of the many EOs that are said to be toxic to dogs, and I'm surprised at how many commercial shampoos contain them (tea tree in particular)

A bit of good smellin' something might be a nice addition at 2-3%, but I'm not sure which might be the best choice. Just because something's not toxic, doesn't mean a pooch wouldn't dislike smelling it all day.

See if you can find a cat poo or compost fragrance! They would like that alright.

 

[dmcgee5034]

Dogs have a higher pH than human skin - so there's that. I make and use lye based soap on my dogs - and wash them about once a fortnight or three weeks-ish. Just depends how intolerably stinky they get : )
I use neem oil at 5% of the recipe but I do also use some Eos in low dosage to cover up the smell. It doesn't 'cover up' so much as make it more bearable. Do some research if you use fragrance, because there are some that are absolute no-nos for dogs: Is My Diffuser Poisoning My Pet? 10 Essential Oils That Are Toxic to Dogs and it varies from source to source, so check across several sources. In any case - make sure you don;lt use as much as a human soap.

That was a helpful read, @KiwiMoose! Thank you for sharing

 

[contrinokathy]

Neem oil does smell very strong, and most people find it quite unpleasant. Dogs may not mind the smell, but humans probably will. However, covering it up with an FO or EO could easily overwhelm a dog's extremely sensitive olfactory system. For that reason, I'd consider 5% neem powder rather than oil for this formulation. You could take it out of the SCI or the SLSa, or split it between the two.

Neem oil hot process soap does not smell like neem oil. My dog soap has no scent and 15% neem oil.

 

[contrinokathy]

That was a helpful read, @KiwiMoose! Thank you for sharing

I use shampoo bars on my hair and my dogs fur. It does hurt the fur, my dog, my hair or me. My hair is in the best condition it’s been since I was a teenager.
I won’t argue here that a hot process soap is perfectly fine for hair because there are strong feelings about it but I formulate perfectly fine shampoo bars and so do others.

 

[AliOop]

Neem oil hot process soap does not smell like neem oil. My dog soap has no scent and 15% neem oil.

My guess is that depends on how much neem you use, and maybe the rest of your recipe, as well. At 20%, I get a small whiff of it in mine, but I personally don't mind the smell that much. Because there are others who want to gag at the faintest whiff of it, I do lightly scent my (non-dog) neem soap. If I don't tell folks it has neem in it before they smell it, they say that it smells great. But if I tell them before they smell it, then that's all they smell. So I think part of it is a mental reaction, too.

I use shampoo bars on my hair and my dogs fur. It does hurt the fur, my dog, my hair or me.

Did you mean to say, "it does NOT hurt the fur..."?

I won’t argue here that a hot process soap is perfectly fine for hair because there are strong feelings about it but I formulate perfectly fine shampoo bars and so do others.

I'm sure your shampoo bars are wonderful for those people who can safely use actual soap on their hair. The issue on both sides of the "hair soap" argument is that we need to let other people do what works for them, to allow people to share their lived experiences, and to accept there is no one-size-fits-all. What works for someone in one stage of life, may not work in another stage, or for another person, whether that is due to age, body chemistry, diet, medications, water quality, or phase of the moon.

I also believe in full disclosure of known risks, so people can make good decisions for themselves. This is true not just for "hair soap," but all soap. That's why my best friend's favorite soap is a ZNSB with goat milk, and mine is a high-lard bar (also with goat milk), and my husband's is a lard-neem bar without goat milk. There is room for everyone at the soaping table.

 

[AliOop]

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[KiwiMoose]

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Is that all you have to say?

 

[AliOop]

PERIOD. THE END.

<Actually I was removing a duplicate post>