Help with accelerated trace

[Tracy von Elling]

Hi all,

I had plans for trying a new swirl and the soap traced really fast. I'm using a new recipe with 25%palm, 28% olive, 10% shea butter, 5% cocoa butter, 7% castor oil and 25% coconut oil.
My EO were orange and bergamot.
I added coconut milk for half the water. I would love help figuring out what made it accelerate trace.
Thanks so much!

 

[Kamahido]

What was your water:lye ratio?

 

[Tracy von Elling]

It's 2.562. Lye concentration is 28%. Warerbas percentage of oils is 36%. I'm thinking I shouldn't have done this and that's why it maybe accelerated. So much to learn. Thanks for any help you can give!

 

[Dawni]

Temps?

 

[Tracy von Elling]

35 degrees celcius.

 

[Steve85569]

Random thoughts.
Temp is 95 degrees F. A little on the cool side for the amount of hard oils.
The sugar in the coconut milk may be the culprit.

Have you soaped this recipe before without acceleration?
What was your lye discount ( superfat)?

 

[newbie]

I would try a simpler recipe for swirling. Palm, the butters and coconut can all be relatively fast tracers, and castor can as well. If you don't mind lard, you could do lard, OO, CO, and castor and make a great bar. It would be far slower to trace. Something like 40% lard, 40% olive, 15% coconut and 5% castor works well for swirling and slower work. Palm can trace faster than lard or tallow so perhaps, if you want to stay with palm, you could try 30% Palm, 50% olive 15% coconut and 5% castor.

Try a one pound batch of a couple recipes and see what you get.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

I would try a simpler recipe for swirling. Palm, the butters and coconut can all be relatively fast tracers, and castor can as well. If you don't mind lard, you could do lard, OO, CO, and castor and make a great bar. It would be far slower to trace. Something like 40% lard, 40% olive, 15% coconut and 5% castor works well for swirling and slower work. Palm can trace faster than lard or tallow so perhaps, if you want to stay with palm, you could try 30% Palm, 50% olive 15% coconut and 5% castor.

Try a one pound batch of a couple recipes and see what you get.

Thank you. I'll try a more simpler recipe for swirls. This is so helpful.

 

[Tracy von Elling]

Random thoughts.
Temp is 95 degrees F. A little on the cool side for the amount of hard oils.
The sugar in the coconut milk may be the culprit.

Have you soaped this recipe before without acceleration?
What was your lye discount ( superfat)?

Okay. I thought the cooler I soap the less acceleration will be?
I havent used this one before. Superfat was at 5%.

 

[lsg]

You are using 40% hard oils besides the Coconut oil. Those oils are high in saturated fatty acids which accelerates trace.

https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/controlling-trace-in-cold-process-soapmaking/

 

[Clarice]

I have been trying to find a guide to how different oils affect trace - and thus far my googling has been in vain.

Does such a list exist?

Alternatively, I see @lsg that you mention above that a high level of unsaturated fatty acids will accelerate trace. In the attached profile, this recipe has 41.3% of Oleic, about 7% of Linoleic and Linolenic, which I understand are the unsaturated fatty acids? Yielding just shy of 50% in this recipe. Is that high? Is there a rule of thumb that would tell me ranges of various acids that will yield fast, medium, slow trace?

Thanks much!

(Is this the right place to ask this, or should I have started a new thread? Getting used to the guidelines )

 

[lsg]

Your statement, " you mention above that a high level of unsaturated fatty acids will accelerate trace," is not correct. If you re-read my post, I stated that oils/fats high saturated fatty acids tend to accelerate trace.

You might want to start a new thread on "Oil Profiles."
ETA: According to the chart below, cocoa butter, shea butter, Castor oil, and coconut oil accelerates trace. I would have thought that palm accelerates trace since it is high in palmic fatty acid.

https://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/PDFS/OilsAndButters.pdf

 

[Clarice]

Thank you for correcting me @lsg !

I will start a new thread, and perhaps link this one to it?

Cheers!

 

[Tracy von Elling]

You are using 40% hard oils besides the Coconut oil. Those oils are high in saturated fatty acids which accelerates trace.

https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/controlling-trace-in-cold-process-soapmaking/

I thought each batch needs around 50% of harder oils? Is that true? I am always nervous to create a recipe with more soft oils than hard. I guess I can do a water discount if I do use more soft oils but being new to soap making I'm not sure I really know how to.

 

[Clarice]

Holy Moly @lsg - that chart is wicked useful! THANK YOU!!!!!

 

[Tracy von Elling]

You are using 40% hard oils besides the Coconut oil. Those oils are high in saturated fatty acids which accelerates trace.

https://www.modernsoapmaking.com/controlling-trace-in-cold-process-soapmaking/

I'm not sure if my reply posted before. Do I not need around 50%hard oils in a recipe to help the soap to not take forever to saponify?
This is helpful. Thank you!

 

[Steve85569]

100% olive oil saponifies and it's all soft oil.
The trick with controlling the trace rate ( soap on a stick) is to use a balance of oils that do not all saponify easily ( quickly) and to control some of the speed with water content. Every recipe that I have used so far behaves differently. Change water content and trace changes. Make it a salt bar and trace changes. Etc, etc...

Then we start adding fragrances which is an entire thread....

 

[lsg]

I thought each batch needs around 50% of harder oils? Is that true? I am always nervous to create a recipe with more soft oils than hard. I guess I can do a water discount if I do use more soft oils but being new to soap making I'm not sure I really know how to.

No, you do not have to have 50% hard fats or oils. Trying SoapCalc-- 20% coconut, 15% palm, 5% Castor and 60% olive or rice bran oil will make a fairly hard bar with creamy lather.

 

[earlene]

There are plenty of people who love Castile soap, (not everyone does, but that is beside the point) and it has no hard fats or oils if made with 100% olive oil. And has been considered fine soap for many many people for many many years (centuries, perhaps). So no, 50% hard oils is not required to make good soap.