Help With A Recipe

[Nienna]

Hi,
Found a nice mild liquid soap recipe, but there are a few things I'm wondering about.

a) The recipe uses xantham gum as a thickener because they used a natural preservative so it the only one that worked. However reading g the comments it's not very stable, after a while it separates out so not great for selling. What else can I use to thicken it that's more stable? I can't find the preservative listed in the recipe anyway so will have to change to a different one anyway so can use one that is compatible with other thickeners.

b) What preservative do I use? I'm not worried about being totally natural, that was just a preference the writer had, I just care about making a stable product that will keep.

c) Approx how many ml do you think this 100g recipe will make?


The recipe:

• 28 g distilled water
• 20 g rose water
• 20 g aloe juice
• 15 g coco glucoside (or decyl glucoside)
• 10 g coco betaine or cocamidopropyl betaine
• 4.25 g glycerin
• 2 g xanthan gum
• .75 g Sharomix 705

• Sprinkle the xanthan gum powder over the glycerin or glycerite, and gently mix it into the glycerin as well as you can.
• Weigh out and mix the other ingredients together gently.
• Slowly begin to add in the xanthan gum and glycerin mixture, checking on the texture after each addition. Keep adding and mixing it in until you get to the desired viscosity.
• Pour the finished gel into a dispenser of choice. Ideal dispensers are those with flip tops and/or pump dispensers.

 

[lsg]

Your recipe produces a surfactant-based product.
You can use liquid Germall Plus preservative with Crothix liquid as a thickener.

https://www.chemistrystore.com/Soap_Making_Supplies-Crothix_Thickener.html

​

 

[Nienna]

Your recipe produces a surfactant-based product.
You can use liquid Germall Plus preservative with Crothix liquid as a thickener.

https://www.chemistrystore.com/Soap_Making_Supplies-Crothix_Thickener.html

​

Is it known by a different name? I live in NZ so that might make sourcing some things difficult.

 

[lsg]

Is it known by a different name? I live in NZ so that might make sourcing some things difficult.

It is known by several brand names. Here is the INCI for the product. If you have Amazon.com in New Zealand, try them.
INCI Name: PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate (and) PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides (and) Water

 

[Nienna]

It is known by several brand names. Here is the INCI for the product. If you have Amazon.com in New Zealand, try them.
INCI Name: PEG-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate (and) PEG-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides (and) Water

I can only find crothix pastilles which seem to required being melted down in hot water. This recipe doesn't get heated, so should I just heat a portion of the water for the recipe melt the crothix then let it cool and add it to the rest of the recipe would that be OK?

Also would microcare pehg be an OK preservative?

 

[lsg]

Here is a description from The Herbarie. "Crothix Pastilles offer efficient thickening for shampoo, body wash and other surfactant based systems. Crothix is used at low percentages. To melt/dissolve, Crothix can be added to liquid surfactants or water and heated to 80-85C/176-185F. Must melt completely to be effective."
It looks like microcare pehg would be an alternative. Here is a link with info.
https://www.purenature.co.nz/products/euxyl-pe-9010

 

[Nienna]

Here is a description from The Herbarie. "Crothix Pastilles offer efficient thickening for shampoo, body wash and other surfactant based systems. Crothix is used at low percentages. To melt/dissolve, Crothix can be added to liquid surfactants or water and heated to 80-85C/176-185F. Must melt completely to be effective."
It looks like microcare pehg would be an alternative. Here is a link with info.
https://www.purenature.co.nz/products/euxyl-pe-9010

Thanks, pure nature is actually where I get most of my stuff.

Yeah I read that about the Crothix, however that doesn't actually help me exactly, because like I said this recipe doesn't get heated so I don't know how exactly to melt the Crothix and add it when my mixture stays room temp.

 

[lsg]

You can heat the recipe mixture before adding Crothix. Stir until Crothix is dissolved and then let the mixture cool. before putting it in a bottle.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

However reading g the comments it's not very stable, after a while it separates out so not great for selling.

I concur. I had the same experience with xantham gum as a thickener as well as with guar gum.

IME and IMO the best way to get near-perfect viscosity is to use 50% coconut oil plus 50% liquid oils of choice. Once made, weigh the paste/base and dilute at 40% soap to 60% water -- no need to thicken.

DILUTION GUIDELINES

What preservative do I use?

As Catherine Failor says in her book, Making Natural Liquid Soaps, "fully saponified soap requires no preservative."

ETA: Oopsie! I just realized you're making a syndet (synthetic/detergent) product, not lye-based liquid soap. So. Just ignore the above advice unless you choose to go the "all natural"l way.

I can only find crothix pastilles which seem to required being melted down in hot water.

I have used the pastilles in the past. Follow the directions given by your supplier. Should be fine -- as well as effective -- I think, but I have no experience with syndets to verify results.

NOTE: If I were to go the "syndet" way for selling, I would just buy a base, add color and fragrance and call it done. LOL There are wonderful bases available that rival anything one could make DIY, IMO, -- plus less expensive than the cost/labor/trial & error involved in making it yourself -- and less stress about performance and batch failure. But that's just me.

FWIW, Syndets have never made any sense to me after a lifetime of making good pure soaps with all their goodness and variety that gets the creative juices flowing. But members who do make them, seem to love them!

 

[Nienna]

I concur. I had the same experience with xantham gum as a thickener as well as with guar gum.

IME and IMO the best way to get near-perfect viscosity is to use 50% coconut oil plus 50% liquid oils of choice. Once made, weigh the paste/base and dilute at 40% soap to 60% water -- no need to thicken.

DILUTION GUIDELINES


As Catherine Failor says in her book, Making Natural Liquid Soaps, "fully saponified soap requires no preservative."

ETA: Oopsie! I just realized you're making a syndet (synthetic/detergent) product, not liquid soap. So. Just ignore the above advice unless you choose to go the "all natural"l way.


I have used the pastilles in the past. Follow the directions given by your supplier. Should be fine -- as well as effective -- I think, but I have no experience with syndets to verify results.

NOTE: If I were to go the "syndet" way for selling, I would just buy a base, add color and fragrance and call it done. LOL There are wonderful bases available that rival anything one could make DIY, IMO, -- plus less expensive than the cost/labor/trial & error involved in making it yourself -- and less stress about performance and batch failure. But that's just me.

Cheers, I looked at bases but they are all the wrong ph for what I'm trying to do. I forgot yo say, but it's for a baby safe wash so I need something quite specific and this seems to be pretty perfect and just uses a few drops of lactic acid to lower the ph to baby range. Plus aloe of bases are too stripping for bubs I read.

You can heat the recipe mixture before adding Crothix. Stir until Crothix is dissolved and then let the mixture cool. before putting it in a bottle.

Ok cool do you think the recipe could be heated without changing or damaging it. Sorry about all the questions, only done melt and pour soaps.

 

[Misschief]

c) Approx how many ml do you think this 100g recipe will make?

1 gram = 1 ml so 100 grams = 100 ml.

 

[Nienna]

1 gram = 1 ml so 100 grams = 100 ml.

Is that accurate for soap, I know that's that works for water. But not all liquids weight 1g per 1ml, wax only weight approx .83g per 1ml for example. Hence why I've been uncertain about weight vs volume with soaps.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I looked at bases but they are all the wrong ph for what I'm trying to do.

Take a look at the bases I linked. The bubble bath (pH: 6.5 ) works well for the babies, young & old (meaning me! haha) that I make it for. It is an "all-pupose" product that also makes a very nice hair & body shampoo using a bath pouf in the shower. Maybe you can find something similar?

Is that accurate for soap,

Yes.

 

[Nienna]

Take a look at the bases I linked. The bubble bath (pH: 6.5 ) works well for the babies, young & old (meaning me! haha) that I make it for. It is an "all-pupose" product that also makes a very nice hair & body shampoo using a bath pouf in the shower. Maybe you can find something similar?

Oh, awesome yeah I will check it put because a ready made would be great because the initial cost of making it myself is extreme.

Edit: just realized I don't think i can get what you linked, costs too much to get stuff from out of NZ.

 

[lsg]

Ok cool do you think the recipe could be heated without changing or damaging it. Sorry about all the questions, only done melt and pour soaps.

Yes, I think heating it to 165* F will be fine. If you just dissolve it in the water part, it may get too thick and gooey. You could try that to see if it works.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I don't think i can get what you linked, costs too much to get stuff from out of NZ.

I hear ya! It doesn't have to be that particular one. Check around for whatever comes closest to what you want.

Try several different samples. You would still save $$$ and it would be well worth the time and expense in the long run.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Try these guys: The Sourcery
I recently tried to re-order some varisoft EQ65 which I use in my shampoo bars, and now my only stockist in NZ has stopped stocking it. I ended up ordering from Aussie Soap Supplies ( along with a few other items that were cheaper over there than here) Even with the ridiculous shipping price of circa $AU65 added on, the individual items all worked out cheaper than buying them in NZ. Go figure.