Help! What Did I Do Wrong & Can It Be Fixed?

[Cttx2ne]

I made a Coconut Milk Soap that was put in the freezer for 5 days. The bottom of the soap is very gel like.

Can anyone tell me what I did wrong and how to fix it? Recipe below

[/url]IMG_8991 by cttx2ne, on Flickr[/IMG]]

[/url]IMG_8993 by cttx2ne, on Flickr[/IMG]


RECIPE - grams

Coconut Milk 976.56
Lye 357.98
Avocado Oil 321.24
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 642.47
Olive Oil 1092.20
Castor Oil 256.99
Cocoa Butter 256.9

fragrance 4 oz

Thanks!
Connie

 

[lenarenee]

When you say gel like - do you mean it looks like gel, or does it actually feel like gel? I haven't put your recipe through a calculator, but visually it simply looks like you soap got hot enough from saponification in the center to start "cooking" and that changes the appearance. It's called gel phase.
If that's what happened then there's absolutely nothing wrong with your soap.

 

[MySoapyHeart]

Looks like you made the soap with full water? i.e no water reduction, and then imediatly freezed it for 5 days, took it out now and it was gel-like in consistency? Gel-like as in mushy underneath? I can see some drag/fingermarks under the soap, so I am just assuming this.

Did you stickblend it enough, so you got trace?

I would suspect the issue here is that the saponificationprocess was slowed way down, and it may just need more time to fully saponify because you freezed it. The ammount of olive oil also contributes to the soap hardening a bit slower. With full water + olive oil + freezing right away, this may be what is going on here.

If it were me, I would just put it in the oven to see if it sets up, and then cut it after it has fully gelled. If you used a disposable mold (i.e cardboard, you can use that, and wrap it in some paper or whatnot. It needs some insulation so it can cozy up and do its thing)

Here`s how you do it. Turn on your oven, and when it reaches around 120-130F, turn it off (some prefer higher temps, but this has worked for me in the past, but not that I do this very often)
Put your insulated soap in the warm oven, and walk away util the next day. Check it and if it is firm enough to cut, do so, and let it cure in a dry, safe place with free air around it. (Don`t cure on metal)

You can also use a heatingpad/blanket, but I have not tried that yet.

If you put it in the freezer to prevent it to gel or overheat on you, it still looks like you got some partial gelling going on. I can see a dark cirkle of gelled soap, and the edges is lighter, which is a tell-tell sign of partial gel.

Others may chime in with other advice too, my answer may not be the correct one, but just how I read your situation and thought about what I would have done.

 

[Nevada]

Hi Connie, here is your recipe in SoapCalc.net.
Coconut oil 92d is approximately the fat in the Coconut milk. The numbers closely match my CM Castile.

View attachment Connie's CM CB soap .pdf

 

[Cttx2ne]

The discoloration in the middle looks like gel and the bottom of it feels like it. Soaps up great tho. LOL

Yes it is gel like mushy on the bottom. I used full water as per the soapcalc and did stick blend to trace.

I did use a cardboard box for the mold Can I put the box in the oven? What paper would I put around it?

Interesting that your recipe numbers are different than mine. I measured the mold and determined I needed 90.65 oz of oil. I put that into the recipe and then selected the percentage of each oil I wanted to add. The calculator did the rest.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Hiya Connie!

I wish I could help but I can't -- I've never soaped coconut milk, or put soap in the freezer for 5 days, or made a soap that came out like yours did. Maybe this TroubleShooting site can help figure it out:

Troubleshooting
http://www.lovinsoap.com/troubleshooting/

Good Luck! :bunny:
​

 

[earlene]

Hi Connie, here is your recipe in SoapCalc.net.
Coconut oil 92d is approximately the fat in the Coconut milk. The numbers closely match my CM Castile.

I disagree with this. I don't believe you can use an oil calculation for the Coconut milk. Not when it is taking the place of water. See this thread for more discussion on that topic. I do understand that whatever fat may be in the brand of Coconut milk one uses, there is bound to be some additional fat that may up the SF of a recipe, so in that case, if it were me, I'd simply change the SF number in my lye calculator.

Yes it is gel like mushy on the bottom. I used full water as per the soapcalc and did stick blend to trace.

I did use a cardboard box for the mold Can I put the box in the oven? What paper would I put around it?

Yes, I have put cardboard box molds in the oven many times for CPOP. I set my oven at the lowest temp (about 150° F or a bit below). I cover with either another piece of carboard or plastic wrap, then drape with a towel. Usually I turn the oven off right away, but I have on occasion left it on for a half hour or so before turning it off. It is an electric oven. Not sure I would do the same in a gas oven with a pilot light, though.

Interesting that your recipe numbers are different than mine. I measured the mold and determined I needed 90.65 oz of oil. I put that into the recipe and then selected the percentage of each oil I wanted to add. The calculator did the rest.

I get the same numbers as you using a 5% SF and no water discount, so I see nothing wrong with that part of it. As I said above, if it were me, I'd probably have decreased the SF from the default 5% to something like 2% because of the fats in the Coconut milk, but that would depend on what the content is on your particular brand. According to this Wikipedia article, the amount of fat in coconut milk can be 5-7% if it is 'thin' and 20-22% if it is 'thick'. It also says about half the saturated fat in coconut milk is lauric acid, which if saponified should contribute to hardness, cleansing and big fluffly lather.

Then again, since your recipe is so high in CO, maybe decreasing the SF isn't a good idea after all. That's a lot of cleansing power in your recipe, so maybe it's just fine as it is and would be fine if the milk brings it higher still.

So I have a couple of questions for you:

Did you line the box with freezer paper or, if no, what did you use for lining the box?

Has it firmed up some since by just being exposed to the air? And how long has it been sitting out?

Has it reached room temperature yet?


If it were me, I would take a temperature of the soap, heat the oven to 150 or the lowest your oven heats to, take an inside temperature of the oven (I always do this because I learned that sometimes oven temperature sensors malfunction) and CPOP the soap for the rest of the day (turning the oven off after the soap starts to heat up, if it is at a low room temperature).

 

[Cttx2ne]

Hiya Connie!

I wish I could help but I can't -- I've never soaped coconut milk, or put soap in the freezer for 5 days, or made a soap that came out like yours did. Maybe this TroubleShooting site can help figure it out:

Troubleshooting
http://www.lovinsoap.com/troubleshooting/

Good Luck! :bunny:
​

Thanks!

I disagree with this. I don't believe you can use an oil calculation for the Coconut milk. Not when it is taking the place of water. See this thread for more discussion on that topic. I do understand that whatever fat may be in the brand of Coconut milk one uses, there is bound to be some additional fat that may up the SF of a recipe, so in that case, if it were me, I'd simply change the SF number in my lye calculator.

Yes, I have put cardboard box molds in the oven many times for CPOP. I set my oven at the lowest temp (about 150° F or a bit below). I cover with either another piece of carboard or plastic wrap, then drape with a towel. Usually I turn the oven off right away, but I have on occasion left it on for a half hour or so before turning it off. It is an electric oven. Not sure I would do the same in a gas oven with a pilot light, though.

I get the same numbers as you using a 5% SF and no water discount, so I see nothing wrong with that part of it. As I said above, if it were me, I'd probably have decreased the SF from the default 5% to something like 2% because of the fats in the Coconut milk, but that would depend on what the content is on your particular brand. According to this Wikipedia article, the amount of fat in coconut milk can be 5-7% if it is 'thin' and 20-22% if it is 'thick'. It also says about half the saturated fat in coconut milk is lauric acid, which if saponified should contribute to hardness, cleansing and big fluffly lather.

Then again, since your recipe is so high in CO, maybe decreasing the SF isn't a good idea after all. That's a lot of cleansing power in your recipe, so maybe it's just fine as it is and would be fine if the milk brings it higher still.

So I have a couple of questions for you:

Did you line the box with freezer paper or, if no, what did you use for lining the box?

Has it firmed up some since by just being exposed to the air? And how long has it been sitting out?

Has it reached room temperature yet?

If it were me, I would take a temperature of the soap, heat the oven to 150 or the lowest your oven heats to, take an inside temperature of the oven (I always do this because I learned that sometimes oven temperature sensors malfunction) and CPOP the soap for the rest of the day (turning the oven off after the soap starts to heat up, if it is at a low room temperature).

Never occurred to me to change the SF due to the coconut milk. I'll have to put some thought into the next batch depending on how this one comes out. I'd taken it out of the freezer last night so it was definitely at room temperature.

The soap is in the oven right now wrapped in wax paper. I have freezer paper and wasn't sure about it using it.

Thank you for your help!
Connie

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

That's a huge batch - have you made this recipe at a smaller amount? Other recipes at this batch size?

 

[Susie]

I don't know what the solution is, but it is a bad idea to put soap on a metal rack.

 

[Cttx2ne]

That's a huge batch - have you made this recipe at a smaller amount? Other recipes at this batch size?

Yes, it is a huge batch. It's usually the size I make. When I get a scent I like, I just can't figure out how to make a smaller batch. LOL. I've only ever had a problem one other time and it was on the inside of the soap so I wasn't able to tell before cutting.

I may change how do this next time. Instead of keeping it in the freezer for several days, I'm going to try freezing it for 2-4 hours then pulling it out to finish cooking. Hoping that it won't curdle and still get fully cooked.

I don't know what the solution is, but it is a bad idea to put soap on a metal rack.

I didn't realize that metal racks weren't good. I've been using my microwave rack, which I would think is stainless steel. May have to get out the extra shelf we he from our metal storage rack. I'm sure that is. Thanks!!

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Put the recipe in to a lye calculator and resize it - they do all the maths for you

I asked because bigger batches don't always behave the same way as smaller ones do

 

[cmzaha]

Yes, it is a huge batch. It's usually the size I make. When I get a scent I like, I just can't figure out how to make a smaller batch. LOL. I've only ever had a problem one other time and it was on the inside of the soap so I wasn't able to tell before cutting.

I may change how do this next time. Instead of keeping it in the freezer for several days, I'm going to try freezing it for 2-4 hours then pulling it out to finish cooking. Hoping that it won't curdle and still get fully cooked.

I am not sure what oh are calling cooking, but I assume you are g about telling the soap. I have to ask why you are put
ting it in the freezer? While freezing can sometimes prevent gel it does not always and a partial gel is what you have in the soap pictured. Did the soap ever harden on the bottom? If so I am guessing it became mushy from condensation while thawing the soap. If you do not want a hot gel cut your water high water usually causes a hotter gel. If, and you should be, using a soap calculator try using the "lye concentration" button and use 31-33% lye concentration this will use less liquid.

I agree with EG this is a large batch for someone not experienced in making soap. Any soap calculator such as Soapee will let you change batch size. I would recommend a 1lb mold and play all you want.

I didn't realize that metal racks weren't good. I've been using my microwave rack, which I would think is stainless steel. May have to get out the extra shelf we he from our metal storage rack. I'm sure that is. Thanks!!

You want to line even stainless shelves. While stainless will not directly cause a action even having soap touch stainless racks can promote or hasten dos.

 

[kchaystack]

As most people learned in high school, thanks to Mr Bradbury, paper burns at 451F. (there are differing thoughts about this - but most of the temps you find thown about are between 400 - 500F.)

Wax paper is not a good idea with soap, especially in the oven. The wax coating can melt and leave way on your soap. Its not harmful but can look bad. Freezer paper has a plastic coating one side that is more heat resistant, or parchment paper which is impregnated with silicone are better choices.

 

[penelopejane]

I don't know why you are putting this soap in the freezer.
The coconut milk won't overheat the soap.
When I CPOP soap i cover the soap Then i wrap the soap in a towel or blanket.

 

[Cttx2ne]

Put the recipe in to a lye calculator and resize it - they do all the maths for you

I asked because bigger batches don't always behave the same way as smaller ones do

I did use a soap calculator. Is that different from a lye calculator?

I am not sure what oh are calling cooking, but I assume you are g about telling the soap. I have to ask why you are put
ting it in the freezer? While freezing can sometimes prevent gel it does not always and a partial gel is what you have in the soap pictured. Did the soap ever harden on the bottom? If so I am guessing it became mushy from condensation while thawing the soap. If you do not want a hot gel cut your water high water usually causes a hotter gel. If, and you should be, using a soap calculator try using the "lye concentration" button and use 31-33% lye concentration this will use less liquid.

I agree with EG this is a large batch for someone not experienced in making soap. Any soap calculator such as Soapee will let you change batch size. I would recommend a 1lb mold and play all you want.


You want to line even stainless shelves. While stainless will not directly cause a action even having soap touch stainless racks can promote or hasten dos.

I'm putting it in the freezer because I forgot to use an ice bath when mixing the frozen milk and lye. Between that and not putting it in the freezer to finish, the soap burnt. So I thought I read somewhere that I should do that. Guess I'll have to revisit that.

Once the soap thawed, yes, it became very mushy on the bottom. I'll check out the Soapee calculator next time. I was using Soapcalc.

Should I always use a 31-33% lye or just for coconut milk?

Thanks
Connie

As most people learned in high school, thanks to Mr Bradbury, paper burns at 451F. (there are differing thoughts about this - but most of the temps you find thown about are between 400 - 500F.)

Wax paper is not a good idea with soap, especially in the oven. The wax coating can melt and leave way on your soap. Its not harmful but can look bad. Freezer paper has a plastic coating one side that is more heat resistant, or parchment paper which is impregnated with silicone are better choices.

Thanks for the info on the wax paper. Switched it to freezer paper.

I don't know why you are putting this soap in the freezer.
The coconut milk won't overheat the soap.
When I CPOP soap i cover the soap Then i wrap the soap in a towel or blanket.

I burnt a previous batch because I didn't use an ice bath when mixing the lye and frozen milk. Guess I assumed the cold process would scald it. I'm going to try a smaller batch this week and make some changes.

Thanks,
Connie

 

[SunRiseArts]

If it still mushy, and you want to try to fix it, perhaps if you have a crockpot for soap, maybe you can rebatch it?

That might be the only way to save it

 

[Kittish]

If it still mushy, and you want to try to fix it, perhaps if you have a crockpot for soap, maybe you can rebatch it?

That might be the only way to save it

I'd go with just letting it sit for up to a week or so, first. It might firm up without any help.

 

[toxikon]

I put my soap in the freezer when I made my Oatmeal, Milk and Honey batch as I didn't want the goat milk to scorch.

I put the loaf in the freezer for 24 hours, then into the fridge for another 24 hours. Then removed and left at room temperature for a few days before cutting. No gel and no issue.

I wonder if the mushiness was caused by some sort of condensation in the freezer. If the batch was big enough and warm enough, maybe it heated the freezer and caused some moisture. Just a guess.

I agree with others that working with a small batch size might be a good idea! My max batch size is around 2.5lbs and it's very easy to manage. And freezer paper/parchment paper is definitely the way to go.

Good luck!

 

[penelopejane]

I burnt a previous batch because I didn't use an ice bath when mixing the lye and frozen milk. Guess I assumed the cold process would scald it. I'm going to try a smaller batch this week and make some changes.

You might want to try the split method where you mix the lye with an equal amount of water (100g lye with 100g water) wait for it to cool. Then melt the oils and add the rest of the water required for the recipe as milk and mix with the oils THEN add the cool lye. If you want 100% milk add milk powder to the milk to achieve this.

You can then CPOP the soap at 110*F and forget about the fridge. 2 hrs in the fridge would be ineffective anyway.

Your current soap will firm up. If it still has a partial gel ring that will be cosmetic and won't effect the use.