Help Needed: Soap Tracing Too Fast and Not Hardening

[Soap Maker]

I’m having trouble with my soap tracing too fast. When I mix with just a spatula, it turns rock-hard very quickly. I've noticed that if I keep mixing it gently while it’s hard, it takes about 10 minutes, heats up almost to a boil, then melts back into a liquid.My issues are:Why does this happen?After I pour it, it takes weeks to get hard enough to cut, making it unusable.I’ve adjusted my formula from 45/55 butter to oils to 36/64, but it hasn’t helped. I used to make soap years ago without any issues, but now I can't make a decent batch. Could the problem be with the lye? I've even tried different manufacturers, but the result is the same.Can anyone help?

 

[AliOop]

Hello there! From what you have described, your lye isn't the issue. It's likely something to do with your ingredients, your process, or both. We'd love to help you troubleshoot, but to do that, we need lots more information:

1. List your complete recipe in weights or percentages, including the amount of each oil, the amount of water or other liquid, and the amount of NaOH or KOH.

2. List ALL additives like fragrances, clays, salt, sugar, honey, chelators, fruit purees, etc. Some of those will definitely make soap batter misbehave as you have described.

3. Tell us about your process: what temperature are the oils? What temperature is the lye solution? Are you making hot process or cold process?

Once we know that information, it's usually not too hard to figure out what's going wrong, so we can get you back on your merry soaping journey.

 

[DeeAnna]

I second Ali's request. There is no way we can help you without more information.

 

[Soap Maker]

I’m having trouble with my soap tracing too fast. When I mix with just a spatula, it turns rock-hard very quickly. I've noticed that if I keep mixing it gently while it’s hard, it takes about 10 minutes, heats up almost to a boil, then melts back into a liquid.My issues are:Why does this happen?After I pour it, it takes weeks to get hard enough to cut, making it unusable.I’ve adjusted my formula from 45/55 butter to oils to 36/64, but it hasn’t helped. I used to make soap years ago without any issues, but now I can't make a decent batch. Could the problem be with the lye? I've even tried different manufacturers, but the result is the same.Can anyone help?

Here are the details of my soap formula:
15% coconut oil
40% olive oil
10% shea butter
20% sunflower oil
15% pumpkin oil
Lye (NaOH)
Water percentage: previously 40%, now reduced to 33%
7% superfat
3% goat milk powder
Additional information:
Saturated/unsaturated ratio: 38/62
Batch size: usually 2 kg of fats
I previously tried a formula with the same ingredients but a different sat/unsat ratio of 45/55, hoping that adjusting the amount of butters would make a difference. However, it didn’t have the desired effect.
Thank you for your help! If you need more information, I’m happy to provide it.

 

[akseattle]

2. List ALL additives like fragrances, clays, salt, sugar, honey, chelators, fruit purees, etc. Some of those will definitely make soap batter misbehave as you have described.

@Soap Maker , Definitely look at your FO's used amongst the other additives you may have used. In my limited experience, some can be huge, huge accelerants.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Temperature? - we definitely need to know this for oils and lye water, even as an approximation. I'm not seeing anything about the base recipe that would make it move fast or otherwise misbehave. You didn't mention fragrances, but as mentioned above, they are often at the top of the list when it comes to causing problems. Are all of your oils fresh? Pumpkin oil is very high in linoleic and could go off fairly quickly. Are you using high oleic sunflower? If not, that's another high linoleic oil that could go bad quickly. And, unfortunately, oil labeled as olive oil can misbehave, even when a bottle is freshly opened.

 

[Soap Maker]

Temperature? - we definitely need to know this for oils and lye water, even as an approximation. I'm not seeing anything about the base recipe that would make it move fast or otherwise misbehave. You didn't mention fragrances, but as mentioned above, they are often at the top of the list when it comes to causing problems. Are all of your oils fresh? Pumpkin oil is very high in linoleic and could go off fairly quickly. Are you using high oleic sunflower? If not, that's another high linoleic oil that could go bad quickly. And, unfortunately, oil labeled as olive oil can misbehave, even when a bottle is freshly opened.

Around 100 F

 

[Soap Maker]

I make these soaps for fun, for myself, my family, and friends, so I don't use colors or fragrances.

 

[AliOop]

You mentioned lowering “water percentage” from 40 to 33.

Were you referring to your lye concentration, or are you using the water as percentage of oil setting? If it is the latter, your water may be too low. I’d recommend switching to the lye concentration setting instead, and setting that to 33%.

If you are already using lye concentration as the setting, then I agree with @Mobjack Bay that either some of your oils or butters are old, or maybe that olive oil contains pomace OO, which is known for very fast acceleration.

 

[Soap Maker]

I'm sorry, I now use a 33% lye concentration. My olive oil in the recipe is EVOO, but my sunflower oil and coconut oil are old.

 

[AliOop]

I haven’t found old CO to accelerate trace (any more than it normally does), but old sunflower definitely does.

Pumpkin oil doesn’t even need to be very old; as Mobjack Bay noted, it oxidizes very quickly even under the best of circumstances. It’s an expensive oil for soap, where the fatty acids are broken down by the lye and changed into something different. I’d save that one for lotions, where it is lovely.

Bottom line, I’d try simplifying your recipe to something like this:

40% OO
30% palm oil, lard, or tallow
15% CO
10% shea butter
5% castor oil

Keep the goat milk powder, the 100f temps, and the 33% lye concentration. Consider lowering the superfat to 3-5% at the most; your soap will lather better and leave less soap scum. Your recipe is very mild, so a high SF really isn’t needed.

One thing I forgot to ask is if you heated your shea butter to at least 160F before adding liquid oils and cooling them to 100F. That will ensure complete melting and avoid false trace, which it sounds like you are experiencing.

 

[Soap Maker]

Thank you so much for taking the time to help. I always melt my butters on gentle heat before adding them to the other oils. I’ll try the recipe you suggested and keep you updated. Your advice on pumpkin oil is helpful, and I appreciate the tips on superfat and shea butter. Thanks again!

 

[cmzaha]

I am really scratching my head on this one. You say you use no fragrance so that knocks out the heating up from a naughty fragrance and knocks out the fast acceleration/false trace issue. So that goes back to old oils being an issue.

First issue I see is false trace from free fatty issue from old oils cause fast acceleration and possibly low soap temp. side note: I deal with this with all my soaps
Second issue heating to boiling: Are you taking temps and is it really heating up close to boiling/ volcano stage or is it just a normal gel stage which you will see after a false trace? GM can cause overheating. My recipes always false trace due to high hard palm or tallow/lard and very cool soaping temp then will thin out once my batter starts to heat/saponify. My non-vegan will thin out very thin after its initial thick false trace.

I can also understand why it takes a long time to set up with 75% soft oils especially if you happen to pour at a thin trace. I love pumpkin oil in soap in the 20% range without even having problems if using a fresh bottle of pumpkin oil and always used it in my pumpkin soaps. HO Sunflower is a go-to for me but I really dislike OO although I would use it once in a while to slow trace along with Lard if I wanted a slow tracing recipe for intricate swirls. I sold the soaps with OO just did not keep them for home use.

 

[Soap Maker]

Thank you for your insights! I don’t take the temperature after mixing the lye with the oils, but I see your point. After the initial mixing, it quickly reaches a false trace and feels almost crystallized on the spatula. At this point, I have to gently force the spatula in and out for about 10 minutes until it starts to loosen up and heats up from the reaction. It doesn’t actually boil, but it gets quite hot to hold.

With my original recipe, I was trying to create a good moisturizing soap for the hot days of summer, so it was even heavier on butters. I wasn’t aware that old oils could cause issues; I was more concerned about old lye affecting the chemical reaction. Now, I’ll be more conservative with buying oils and only get what I need.

I suspect the issue might be the old oils, so I'll replace them with new ones and try the recipe suggested by AliOop. I appreciate the advice on oil choices—I'll consider trying different ones to help with tracing.
Thanks again!

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@Soap Maker - one quick note about lye - if it stays dry/is stored in a well-sealed container, NaOH will last a very long time. If not sealed well, NaOH will absorb from moisture in the air, which causes it to clump, and it will react with carbon dioxide in the air to form sodium carbonate. These reactions will weaken the lye, which shouldn't have any major effect on your soap making except to possibly slow down the saponification reaction and leave some extra superfat.

 

[Soap Maker]

Thank you for the great information! It’s really helpful to know how to properly store lye to maintain its effectiveness. This will definitely improve my soap-making process.