Help: My cp soap doesn't perform like I hoped

[ChriD]

Hello everyone: My cp soap bars feel drying on my skin while I use them, but afterward my skin feels great. My friend used one of my bars and told me the same thing, she doesn't like the way it makes her skin feel while using it, but feels soft afterwards. This happens in a Bastille bar: 85% olive oil, 5% shea, 5% coconut, 5% castor. It happens when I use Goat's Milk (frozen, lye added): 25% Olive Oil, 30% Coconut Oil, 19.98% Palm Oil, 15.01% Shea Butter, 5.08% castor Oil, 4.90% Sunflower Oil. And it happens in a recipe of 55% olive oil, 20% Coconut Oil, 10% Cocoa Butter, 10% Shea Butter, 5% castor oil. I add silk, 1T kaolin clay, 1T Cream ppo, 1t sugar ppo, f/o, 1t Sodium Lactate, mica colorant, 5% Discount. I've played around with soapCalc, used different recipes (as you can see), tweak this and tweak that. I carefully measure everything. Could it be my lye discount isn't enough? Does anyone else have this issue? Do you see something I'm doing wrong? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Chris

 

[Obsidian]

When you are washing, does it feel like there is a film on your skin? Or does your skin feel a bit sticky until it's completely dry?

If so, it could be from soap scum which is worse with homemade soap then store bought. Homemade also just feels different, after using just it for awhile you won't notice.

You might try dropping the clay, just out of curiosity to see if that changes anything.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

How old are the soaps?

 

[shunt2011]

You may be one of us who just dislikes high olive oil soaps or one who doesn't tolerate higher CO amounts.

I'm one who finds high OO soaps drying to my skin. I don't care for them one bit. Though I'm not sensitive to CO and go as high as 25% sometimes.

As obsidian said it could be soap scum from hard water causing it if you happen to have hard water and may need to add a chelator to the soap to help with it.

The age of the soap play into it as well. It may just need a longer cure. Your high OO soap may need a year or so of curing to be decent. I cure all my soap at least 6 weeks most times. Some require longer and some much much longer.

 

[ChriD]

When you are washing, does it feel like there is a film on your skin? Or does your skin feel a bit sticky until it's completely dry?

If so, it could be from soap scum which is worse with homemade soap then store bought. Homemade also just feels different, after using just it for awhile you won't notice.

You might try dropping the clay, just out of curiosity to see if that changes anything.

When i am washing it doesn't feel sticky or tacky, it bubbles nicely yet my skin doesn't feel like its getting the soap, if you know what I mean. The soap feels like its right on the surface, thus giving me a dry feeling. Hard to describe.

How old are the soaps?

The soaps are over 6 weeks old.

 

[Obsidian]

When i am washing it doesn't feel sticky or tacky, it bubbles nicely yet my skin doesn't feel like its getting the soap, if you know what I mean. The soap feels like its right on the surface, thus giving me a dry feeling. Hard to describe.

Yeah, I'm not understanding. Is this the first time you've used handmade soap? Could be its just way handmade soap feels to you.
I still think a real basic soap would no additives would be worth a try. Are you against using animal fat? My favorite recipe has lard, its so much better than palm.

50% lard or palm oil
20% coconut oil
25% olive oil or your favorite liquid oil
5% castor

 

[ChriD]

You may be one of us who just dislikes high olive oil soaps or one who doesn't tolerate higher CO amounts.

I'm one who finds high OO soaps drying to my skin. I don't care for them one bit. Though I'm not sensitive to CO and go as high as 25% sometimes.

As obsidian said it could be soap scum from hard water causing it if you happen to have hard water and may need to add a chelator to the soap to help with it.

The age of the soap play into it as well. It may just need a longer cure. Your high OO soap may need a year or so of curing to be decent. I cure all my soap at least 6 weeks most times. Some require longer and some much much longer.

O.K.- I just used a tallow soap made 3/27/18 and while it was luxurious during use, unlike the olive oil soap which felt drying (tacky is the word after all) as soon as I rinsed, my skin felt - yes - tacky, like a wet window that you run your fingers down but gets caught up for lack of enough water (make sense?). But I have to say, after putting cream on I feel so moisturized all day with both the olive oil and now with the tallow soaps. (Maybe using homemade soaps allows skin to accept the cream better. ) So I'll try the chelator, since my friend is having the same problem with my soaps and she lives in another state. I see chelators are discussed on another thread - I'll jump over there and read everything. Wow that's an important suggestion and really good guidance you all have given me. Thank you so very much. Hugs to everybody.

O.K.- I just used a tallow soap made 3/27/18 and while it was luxurious during use, unlike the olive oil soap which felt drying (tacky is the word after all) as soon as I rinsed, my skin felt - yes - tacky, like a wet window that you run your fingers down but gets caught up for lack of enough water (make sense?). But I have to say, after putting cream on I feel so moisturized all day with both the olive oil and now with the tallow soaps. (Maybe using homemade soaps allows skin to accept the cream better. ) So I'll try the chelator, since my friend is having the same problem with my soaps and she lives in another state. I see chelators are discussed on another thread - I'll jump over there and read everything. Wow that's an important suggestion and really good guidance you all have given me. Thank you so very much. Hugs to everybody.

P.S. - On the chelator thread someone said the chelator made their soap fell less 'squeaky' - that's it! Squeaky.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

That's soap scum from hard water, almost certainly. Easiest way to test it is to buy a bottle of distilled water and wash your hands with that. If the feeling goes away, that's your problem.

The "fix" for this is a chelator like sodium citrate or EDTA, but the first step is confirming that's the problem.

 

[cmzaha]

I agree with the soap scum theory. I use EDTA in all soaps

 

[ChriD]

That's soap scum from hard water, almost certainly. Easiest way to test it is to buy a bottle of distilled water and wash your hands with that. If the feeling goes away, that's your problem.

The "fix" for this is a chelator like sodium citrate or EDTA, but the first step is confirming that's the problem.

Brewer George: I just washed my hands in tap water and then again in distilled water. There is a distinct difference. The Bastille soap (85% olive oil, 5%Coconut, 5% shea, 5% castor) was very bubbly yet squeaky. With the distilled water the Bastille soap had literally No Bubbles yet no squeak and felt moisturizing after rinsing. This sounds like I need a chelator, but in reading about them, EDTA is a chemical, citric acid is tricky when it meets lye. Think I'll try the sodium citrate.

I agree with the soap scum theory. I use EDTA in all soaps

I know EDTA is used a lot in cosmetics and soaps - what do you like about it, is it better than sodium citrate, should I worry about it being a chemical, am I being ridiculous...

 

[BrewerGeorge]

As far as being "a chemical" I wouldn't worry about that unless you're going for some kind of label appeal.

EDTA is used in all kinds of stuff from cosmetics, to food, to eye drops. It's safe enough.

I personally use sodium citrate because I also use it in the kitchen for making cheese sauces. I have softened water, so I only use chelators in the first place so that the soaps will be as good as possible if I gift them to people without water softeners. (The water in our area is ridiculously hard, so the effects of soap scum are very pronounced without something to restrain them.) I can also buy sodium citrate from Amazon Prime free shipping rather than having to get EDTA from specialty soaping/cosmetics vendors.

If I had to pick one for soaping only, I would probably pick EDTA, however.

Your Bastille soap (depending on its age) likely was more difficult to lather with distilled water because it was SO soluble in distilled that you had too much slime to make lather easily. Like trying to lather a big squirt of dish soap without enough water.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Sodium citrate is also a chemical.

Personally, I use sodium citrate as it's easier for me to do so. For chelating, they both work, but EDTA can help reduce DOS (rancidity) too

 

[zanzalawi]

ahhh squeaky yes! the squeaky clean that i don't particularly care for
we have hard water, it always drives me crazy when my soaps leave so much scum in the tub.
i dont care for scrubbing my tub immediately after scrubbing myself haha
i clearly need to get my learn on with chelators, thanks all!

 

[ChriD]

As far as being "a chemical" I wouldn't worry about that unless you're going for some kind of label appeal.

EDTA is used in all kinds of stuff from cosmetics, to food, to eye drops. It's safe enough.

I personally use sodium citrate because I also use it in the kitchen for making cheese sauces. I have softened water, so I only use chelators in the first place so that the soaps will be as good as possible if I gift them to people without water softeners. (The water in our area is ridiculously hard, so the effects of soap scum are very pronounced without something to restrain them.) I can also buy sodium citrate from Amazon Prime free shipping rather than having to get EDTA from specialty soaping/cosmetics vendors.

If I had to pick one for soaping only, I would probably pick EDTA, however.

Your Bastille soap (depending on its age) likely was more difficult to lather with distilled water because it was SO soluble in distilled that you had too much slime to make lather easily. Like trying to lather a big squirt of dish soap without enough water.

Thank you BrewerGeorge; very helpful, thank you for taking your time

Yeah, I'm not understanding. Is this the first time you've used handmade soap? Could be its just way handmade soap feels to you.
I still think a real basic soap would no additives would be worth a try. Are you against using animal fat? My favorite recipe has lard, its so much better than palm.

50% lard or palm oil
20% coconut oil
25% olive oil or your favorite liquid oil
5% castor

Sodium citrate is also a chemical.

Personally, I use sodium citrate as it's easier for me to do so. For chelating, they both work, but EDTA can help reduce DOS (rancidity) too

ok, both chemicals. I Am being ridiculous

 

[penelopejane]

No, you are not being ridiculous.

I don’t like to use EDTA. I go for natural soaps. I use citric acid and am currently trialing sodium gluconate (made from fermented sugar). Sodium gluconate is also supposed to help with DOS.

I don’t use palm oil or animal fats. Australia has a different customer base (with different preferences) than the US when it comes to handmade soap.

 

[CarlS]

No, you are not being ridiculous.

I don’t like to use EDTA. I go for natural soaps. I use citric acid and am currently trialing sodium gluconate (made from fermented sugar). Sodium gluconate is also supposed to help with DOS.

I don’t use palm oil or animal fats. Australia has a different customer base (with different preferences) than the US when it comes to handmade soap.

Hi All,
Penelopejane, what are you finding for a recommended usage and where are you purchasing, if I may ask?
carl stewart

 

[penelopejane]

I am trying 0.5% and 1% sodium gluconate ppo.
My soap is only 3 weeks old so I can't come to any conclusions so far.
The (sparse) research on the internet says it is better than EDTA and CA but they don't tell you why or how much they use. The only natural producer I have found is Jungbunzlauer.
You will have to find a local supplier for their product, there are a few in the US.

 

[IrishLass]

Hi All,
Penelopejane, what are you finding for a recommended usage and where are you purchasing, if I may ask?
carl stewart

Welcome, CarlS! I'm not Penelope, but here is a recent thread that talks about usage rates and places to buy it: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sodium-gluconate.69601/


IrishLass

 

[CarlS]

Welcome, CarlS! I'm not Penelope, but here is a recent thread that talks about usage rates and places to buy it: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sodium-gluconate.69601/


IrishLass

Thanks Everyone! This stuff looks promising from the little research I've done. It'll be interesting to see how PJ's soap turns out.

 

[Terri E]

Hello everyone: My cp soap bars feel drying on my skin while I use them, but afterward my skin feels great. My friend used one of my bars and told me the same thing, she doesn't like the way it makes her skin feel while using it, but feels soft afterwards. This happens in a Bastille bar: 85% olive oil, 5% shea, 5% coconut, 5% castor. It happens when I use Goat's Milk (frozen, lye added): 25% Olive Oil, 30% Coconut Oil, 19.98% Palm Oil, 15.01% Shea Butter, 5.08% castor Oil, 4.90% Sunflower Oil. And it happens in a recipe of 55% olive oil, 20% Coconut Oil, 10% Cocoa Butter, 10% Shea Butter, 5% castor oil. I add silk, 1T kaolin clay, 1T Cream ppo, 1t sugar ppo, f/o, 1t Sodium Lactate, mica colorant, 5% Discount. I've played around with soapCalc, used different recipes (as you can see), tweak this and tweak that. I carefully measure everything. Could it be my lye discount isn't enough? Does anyone else have this issue? Do you see something I'm doing wrong? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Chris

I use sodium citrate and kombucha or Jun in all of my soaps. We have hard mountain water