Help me identify these spots!

[LilianNoir]

Hoping you guys can help me troubleshoot.

Maybe i nit-pick and put my soap under a microscope too much but I am a perfectionist, and I need to know WHY. XD It's how I get better.

So I have these two bars of soap which otherwise turned out ok, but one has white areas that I suspect are stearic/palmitic spots, and the other has white spots that... well I'm not sure what they are.
So in the interest of making future soap better, I'm trying to figure out what the spots are, and how to prevent them. I DO know that they aren't lye pockets, passed the zap test fully.

The culprits:
#1:

Bar #1 recipe:
Coconut 25%
Palm 25%
Canola 25%
Olive 15%
Sweet Almond 7%
Castor 3%

FO- BB Sensuous Sandalwood
soaped relatively cool, lye at 85F, oils 95F. Maybe too cool? but oils were fully clear. Suspect palmitic/stearic but why?

#2:

Bar #2 recipe:
Coconut 25%
Palm 25%
Olive 35%
Cocoa Butter 10%
Castor 5%
Lye @ 33% concentration
FOs - Nuture Temptation and a tiny bit of Nuture Fresh cut rose in purple and pink.

soaped a little warmer, lye at 95F, oils 100F. I also did add some rose FO to the pink and purple layers to intentionally accelerate to help set up the layers. (It did not turn out quite the way I wanted it too though.)
I'm wondering if the spots are uncolored batter?
I did pre-disburse mica in oil, but I hand stirred the color in the batter. I tried not to stir too much b/c of the FO so I'm wondering if it wasn't quite fully incorporated?

I also notice odd texture in the top. Like "Alien brains"? I did put this soap on a heating pad at "Warm" for an hour to encourage gel throughout, but given the accelerating FO I'm wondering if there was a weird temperature differential?

The other thing to note is that my palm oil is in a 7lb bucket so I haven't been fully melting the entire bucket before scooping. I DO stir it up and scrape from the bottom for a few minutes before I scoop/weight to try and get an even distribution. The same palm was used for both recipes. Wondering if that contributed to spots? I have plans to melt that bucket (haha) and distribute the melted palm oil into smaller ziploc bags that can be easily melted/mixed for future batches.

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[GemstonePony]

Did you use Titanium Dioxide in bar #1?

 

[sarahmarah]

Looks like some of the ash I get if I unmold a little too soon.

 

[LilianNoir]

Did you use Titanium Dioxide in bar #1?

I did. Bar 1 has TD, activated charcoal, and glow in the dark pigment. I wondered if it wasn't TD that didn't dissolve, but it's in the black part

Looks like some of the ash I get if I unmold a little too soon.

Which bar?
I did unmold bar #2 a little early and the tops had ash, but the white spots in the purple area are incorporated, not on top

 

[sarahmarah]

Which bar?
I did unmold bar #2 a little early and the tops had ash, but the white spots in the purple area are incorporated, not on top

First one. Where the arrows are. That’s what I get when I unmold too early or if I don’t cover the mold. They almost look like spots of frost usually near the lower edges.

 

[LilianNoir]

First one. Where the arrows are. That’s what I get when I unmold too early or if I don’t cover the mold. They almost look like spots of frost usually near the lower edges.

OOoh. Yeah it's a weird pattern. I was reading that "ash" isn't always soda ash and could be several things. But how to prevent it??

 

[sarahmarah]

I reduced mine by covering and CPOPing. I still get some ash if I cure in my basement—even with a dehumidifier but it’s not as bad.

 

[soaplady30]

Hoping you guys can help me troubleshoot.

Maybe i nit-pick and put my soap under a microscope too much but I am a perfectionist, and I need to know WHY. XD It's how I get better.

So I have these two bars of soap which otherwise turned out ok, but one has white areas that I suspect are stearic/palmitic spots, and the other has white spots that... well I'm not sure what they are.
So in the interest of making future soap better, I'm trying to figure out what the spots are, and how to prevent them. I DO know that they aren't lye pockets, passed the zap test fully.

The culprits:
#1:
View attachment 48949
Bar #1 recipe:
Coconut 25%
Palm 25%
Canola 25%
Olive 15%
Sweet Almond 7%
Castor 3%

FO- BB Sensuous Sandalwood
soaped relatively cool, lye at 85F, oils 95F. Maybe too cool? but oils were fully clear. Suspect palmitic/stearic but why?

#2:
View attachment 48950
Bar #2 recipe:
Coconut 25%
Palm 25%
Olive 35%
Cocoa Butter 10%
Castor 5%
Lye @ 33% concentration
FOs - Nuture Temptation and a tiny bit of Nuture Fresh cut rose in purple and pink.

soaped a little warmer, lye at 95F, oils 100F. I also did add some rose FO to the pink and purple layers to intentionally accelerate to help set up the layers. (It did not turn out quite the way I wanted it too though.)
I'm wondering if the spots are uncolored batter?
I did pre-disburse mica in oil, but I hand stirred the color in the batter. I tried not to stir too much b/c of the FO so I'm wondering if it wasn't quite fully incorporated?

I also notice odd texture in the top. Like "Alien brains"? I did put this soap on a heating pad at "Warm" for an hour to encourage gel throughout, but given the accelerating FO I'm wondering if there was a weird temperature differential?

The other thing to note is that my palm oil is in a 7lb bucket so I haven't been fully melting the entire bucket before scooping. I DO stir it up and scrape from the bottom for a few minutes before I scoop/weight to try and get an even distribution. The same palm was used for both recipes. Wondering if that contributed to spots? I have plans to melt that bucket (haha) and distribute the melted palm oil into smaller ziploc bags that can be easily melted/mixed for future batches.

What are your thoughts on this?

Advice from farm.country here. Get a bucket heater at the local feed store/Agway/ Tractor Supply for your palm. It is electric, submersible and requires little attention (not that I would leave the house with it on). Inexpensive and you can stir up that palm.

 

[LilianNoir]

Advice from farm.country here. Get a bucket heater at the local feed store/Agway/ Tractor Supply for your palm. It is electric, submersible and requires little attention (not that I would leave the house with it on). Inexpensive and you can stir up that palm.

Ok at first I thought you meant those big containers that are basically double boilers, but this is...submersible?
The oil doesn't mess it up?
Tell me more...
Edit: or do you mean, use this in a bigger pot/bucket of water to put the bucket of palm into?

 

[LilianNoir]

I'm surprised to not get more replies. I wish I knew what was up with that texture on bar #2

 

[AliOop]

Advice from farm.country here. Get a bucket heater at the local feed store/Agway/ Tractor Supply for your palm. It is electric, submersible and requires little attention (not that I would leave the house with it on). Inexpensive and you can stir up that palm.

I use bungee cords to secure a heating pad around the outside of the bucket. I put a towel between the pad and the bungee cords. Works like a charm, and I didn't have to buy anything because I already had these around the house.

I'm surprised to not get more replies. I wish I knew what was up with that texture on bar #2

It looks like ricing to me. The other thought is that perhaps some of your hard oils solidified a bit before they were fully incorporated - very possible with accelerating FOs.

 

[DeeAnna]

Some guesses --

Texture on the gray/white/blue soap looks like what will happen when there are differences in the moisture content within the soap. The valleys are where more water evaporated and the hills are where less water has evaporated.

The cloudy whitish areas on the lower corners of the gray and white soap are probably created by the same process of slow cooling that causes "glycerin" rivers. The white dots look like specks of TD. Some of these dots show as short streaks of white, rather than roundish blobs, so I'm thinking the TD got smeared when the bars were cut.

I would not use a submersible water-bucket heater in a pail of fat. These heaters cycle on using full power. That means the heating element will get smokin' hot and stay that way until the thermostat kicks in. This kind of full-on heating is a safe method for heating water, but not so good if you don't want overheated fat.

It's better to use a "band" type heater that fastens around the outside of the pail -- in other words, a heavy-duty version of the heating pad idea that AliOop described.

 

[maxine289]

At one time I used to buy Bramble Berry's 35 lb. buckets of pre mixed oils. I'd sit the bucket on a heating pad, aim a space heater at the bucket and let it heat up all day. The oils never got as clear as a completely liquid oil. I used a really long handled spoon and stirred it up and then parceled it out into zip lock bags and stuck those in the refrigerator. Whenever I was ready to make soap, the zip lock bag went into the microwave. Everything turned out fine. I like AliOop's idea of wrapping a heating pad around the container and securing with bungee cords. That might allow the oils to heat up enough to turn clear.

 

[Obsidian]

I agree with DeeAnna, the textures in #2 is likely caused by different water contents.
I've had it happened when using a little to much water mixing a color.

 

[Megan]

I get the frost spots on occasion and it seems like the culprits are either: I soaped too cool or I cut too soon. More often than not it is that I soaped too cool. Now I always try to soap around 90-100 Fahrenheit.

 

[LilianNoir]

At one time I used to buy Bramble Berry's 35 lb. buckets of pre mixed oils. I'd sit the bucket on a heating pad, aim a space heater at the bucket and let it heat up all day. The oils never got as clear as a completely liquid oil. I used a really long handled spoon and stirred it up and then parceled it out into zip lock bags and stuck those in the refrigerator. Whenever I was ready to make soap, the zip lock bag went into the microwave. Everything turned out fine. I like AliOop's idea of wrapping a heating pad around the container and securing with bungee cords. That might allow the oils to heat up enough to turn clear.

Funny you mention that. I made the decision last week to melt down the bucket in a big pot and ladle into freezer bags and just pull out a bag as needed.
Glad to see you've done this successfully. I was worried about microwaving the ziplock.

I agree with DeeAnna, the textures in #2 is likely caused by different water contents.
I've had it happened when using a little to much water mixing a color.

The weird thing is...I didn't use any other water outside of my lye solution, well there was a little bit of water in the TD in the white layer but none in the blue and grey.
This where I'm wondering if the purple/pink layers(with accelerating FO) got hotter and that temperature difference caused it?
I'd love to hear thoughts on that.

I get the frost spots on occasion and it seems like the culprits are either: I soaped too cool or I cut too soon. More often than not it is that I soaped too cool. Now I always try to soap around 90-100 Fahrenheit.

I think I'm still finding my "sweet spot" for temps. I've gone from too high to too cool.LOLOL.
I find I like lye at 85/90 and oils at 100,b/c it gives me enough time to work. I think the black/white soap was done closer to 85/95 and I know I cut early (it was for a contest. I did not win. lol).

I'm sure it's minor but i really want to learn from my mistakes. Soap is a process! I love it though.

Thanks for all your help folks. I would've given up on soap I think if not for this forum.

 

[LilianNoir]

I reduced mine by covering and CPOPing. I still get some ash if I cure in my basement—even with a dehumidifier but it’s not as bad.

I JUST remembered that I stuck the Black white batch (although it was covered) in the garage . I live in Florida. The humidity is unreal and i've since stopped doing that (for a while it was the only place i knew kitties wouldn't get into it. I've re-arranged things to make space for soap loaves in the house. lol)

So maybe that's a combo of ash AND TD.
Interesting.
Well I now have my TD pre-mixed which should help with that. (I was using oil to mix water soluble TD which probably didn't help). And I'm melting down palm oil, so hopefully that's two things "solved".

 

[dotgiorgio]

Are the 35 lb buckets you are talking about the same as melt and pour?

 

[LilianNoir]

I'm coming back to this because I've determined that the spots in the black are a type of stearic spot or glycerin river mottling. It happened in another batch that used activated charcoal. I think it's the charcoal. It's only ever happened with batches, and sections with the charcoal.

I have a new perplexing spot issue.

The batch with all activate charcoal, which developed the weird frost/mottling issues inside, also developed an abundance of tiny spots on the outside of a few bars, AFTER cutting. The spots actually appeared a few days (or a week? I'm not sure. I noticed them now and the bars have been curing for two weeks) and are on TOP of the bar.

They LOOK almost like little colonies but I'm positive they aren't growth, because when I run my fingernail over it, they come off easily as waxy/soap like bits that are waxy and feel a little slippery with water and rinse off cleanly.
You can see where I scraped it in the photo. Some of the white in there is from mica swirls.
The spots only appeared on three bars on one side, which were all "top" bars. (slab mold, The spots didn't appear on any of the cut/internal faces.

The bars were on their sides in a plastic basket with air flow holes, but some bars had fallen over and were leaning on each other, and the basket was covered with a towel.
So, I'm thinking glycerin dew? Seems weird though.
Can you get stearic spots after cut??

 

[TheGecko]

Can you get stearic spots after cut??

You get stearic spots usually because you haven't melted it enough to start with...if you didn't have them before you cut, you wouldn't have then after. But what you thing are stearic could simply be tiny air bubbles in your soap with is more noticeable with a wire cutter than say with a knife. Could also be a bit of ash forming. What you could do is try planning your soap. Sometimes my soap has a bit of a 'rash' after I cut it, but then I plane it several days later and it's all good.