Haunted by lard/tallow

[Michele50]

I switched to tallow early last year (2018) because I can very strongly smell the "pig factor" in soap, although none of my customers seemed to notice. The soap is a bit more cleansing, but soap itself is harder and the bars last a bit longer, lather seems to be very comparable. And I don't notice an animal smell to it.

Lol, I'm just the opposite; I can detect a little animal scent to Tallow but not Lard. Funny how we all can detect different things. Happily, the scent is non-detectable in the finished products of soaps made with either Tallow or Lard.

 

[Ladka]

When I first learned to make soap five years ago we used sheep tallow because it was our association of sheepbreeders that organized the course. We used a recipe with half tallow half other oils (I think it was food grade sunflower and castor oils). I liked the soap so much I never stopped using sheep tallow for my soaps. I also use beef tallow and lard. I do smell the pig in the soap initially but the smell fades away with time.

 

[Michele50]

"....I got the tallow either free from one butcher's or at a knockdown price from another, and in both cases it was going to be thrown away, so I feel that at least I'm recycling part of the animal. ....."

The whole religious/cultural/political/nutritional issue normally consists of there being two sides to every coin.
...."

Yes, 2 sides to every coin; no matter if it involves ingredients in soap, politics, or whatever. I don't foresee an entire world of people all of a sudden giving up meat; to me, using lard/tallow in soap and other skincare products is being a good stuart and being environmentally responsible.

When I first learned to make soap five years ago we used sheep tallow because it was our association of sheepbreeders that organized the course. We used a recipe with half tallow half other oils (I think it was food grade sunflower and castor oils). I liked the soap so much I never stopped using sheep tallow for my soaps. I also use beef tallow and lard. I do smell the pig in the soap initially but the smell fades away with time.

What a wonderful outcome from the sheep breeder's association course: wonderful soap that is much kinder to the skin than the store-bought syndet / combars. I think if more people tried 'real' soap they'd not want to return to the commercial stuff. I have a friend who now makes her own after receiving handmade soap on and off for two years as gifts to her from me. She said that when she and her hubby got low on reserves they just didn't couldn't return to the commercial stuff. We aren't killing an animal to be able to make soap; we're using the 'waste' product from an animal already processed for consumption.

 

[Cjennmom]

My first book with soap recipes in it (bought around 1989) used colonial type recipes so lard/tallow was always a part of my soapmaking lexicon. I figure for the most part only the anti-animal products nuts would be against it.

I belonged to a different soap forum way back when and they were definitely DOWN on lard/tallow. It was considered a low, trashy fat that produced only shameful, pore-clogging soap - certainly nothing you'd want to admit to on your label or among friends and customers. Despite the stories, I did give it a try a couple of times. I can't remember if I liked it or not.

Now I see it is being talked about quite freely and without shame. I've seen many posts extolling its virtues. I want to try it again, but the thought of it makes me feel "dirty."

Is there anyone else out there who looks down upon lard/tallow? (Strictly from a soap making perspective.)

(Yes, I know all this sounds neurotic but I just can't shrug off the feeling.)

Lard is actually really cheap - you can get it in grocery stores and Walmart. It's generally found in the same area as Crisco. It might get even cheaper if you were to buy fat (suet?) from the meat counter at your local grocery or ask about extra fat at any local slaughterhouse you might have and take to rendering your own. There's loads of pages about rendering lard or tallow online and with today's crock pots it's even easier to apply long term low heat without burning stuff.

I don't use either, it's more of a cost issue.

 

[MGM]

I've made a few 100% lard soaps. The first one went mad and we never figured out why. The later ones got crumbly because I had been using a slow-setting recipe and got used to cutting after 3-4 days, and forgot that I switched back to lard, which needed a sooner cut (people pointed out that I should be using a wire rather than that big ole knife, but, confession, I still haven't gotten a wire and still cut all my other batches with that big ole knife just fine). I have a 5th batch of all-lard that I haven't tried out yet. But the one thing all these soaps have in common is they are hard and very long-lasting and produce a creamy lather.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

Lol, I'm just the opposite; I can detect a little animal scent to Tallow but not Lard

same here!!

Quote=Cjenmom
It might get even cheaper if you were to buy fat (suet?) from the meat counter

I wonder if it would be cheaper once you figure in utilities and time?

 

[Michele50]

same here!!!

I think it so comical how different noses detect or don't detect the 'animal' scent in various fats. I have my aunt's nose in that I can detect liquor (even just a glass of beer) a mile away on someone's breath. My youngest son (36 now) is the same way; when his dad would have ONE beer I could hear his 3-year-old voice saying, "ohhhh, dad, you had a beer!!" Too funny!! And the look on his little face as he said that was hilarious (busted by a 3-year-old) with the nose of a bloodhound.

 

[Dahila]

Lard; the best fries are made on lard, The best soap, Lard is delicious on fresh baked bread . Of course lard is prepared with bacon, onions, garlic and some herbs. I fry everything on lard; the highest smoke point.
I agree with sirtim ; an animal gave us it's life (food chain) and we have to use every part of the sacrifice, so nothing goes to waste. I also believe in appreciation for the animal..
I am selling on really big market and I get once in a while a vegan or a person who does not like animal fat in soaps. The people who do not like it, I explain what is happening when i make soap and 99% of people decide to buy lard soap. Then they are back for more, and become returning customers.
Lard has so many uses it is mind blowing

 

[Arimara]

I switched to tallow early last year (2018) because I can very strongly smell the "pig factor" in soap, although none of my customers seemed to notice. The soap is a bit more cleansing, but soap itself is harder and the bars last a bit longer, lather seems to be very comparable. And I don't notice an animal smell to it.

I find that tallow lends to a creamier scent in my soap (unscented). I agree about tallow being more cleansing and I would use it in the 30-40% range if I use it again. It's not as cheap or readily available since the quality of the tallow I can but locally is pretty top notch, which ties in with my response below...

Lard; the best fries are made on lard, The best soap, Lard is delicious on fresh baked bread . Of course lard is prepared with bacon, onions, garlic and some herbs. I fry everything on lard; the highest smoke point.
I agree with sirtim ; an animal gave us it's life (food chain) and we have to use every part of the sacrifice, so nothing goes to waste. I also believe in appreciation for the animal..
I am selling on really big market and I get once in a while a vegan or a person who does not like animal fat in soaps. The people who do not like it, I explain what is happening when i make soap and 99% of people decide to buy lard soap. Then they are back for more, and become returning customers.
Lard has so many uses it is mind blowing

I still like beef tallow for my fries. Lard, unless I make bacon, which is rare, would just sit in the fridge. Neither my family nor I are that keen on pork. I also agree that by using lard or tallow, we are not letting the animal die in vain. Most of my ancestors used every bit of the animal they killed, might as well keep a bit of that tradition alive.

 

[sirtim100]

I think it so comical how different noses detect or don't detect the 'animal' scent in various fats. I have my aunt's nose in that I can detect liquor (even just a glass of beer) a mile away on someone's breath. My youngest son (36 now) is the same way; when his dad would have ONE beer I could hear his 3-year-old voice saying, "ohhhh, dad, you had a beer!!" Too funny!! And the look on his little face as he said that was hilarious (busted by a 3-year-old) with the nose of a bloodhound.

I can smell the tallow in the soap when it comes fresh out of the mould, but from then on it smells fine. The lard I've been using doesn't smell at all, even when ladling it out of the tub and mixing it with the other oils, and from then on it has to compete with the OO I use, which is really nice stuff but really smells of what it is. Then again, I think with age the sense of smell is going, along with the eyesight...

In response to John Harris' question, I thought I might find soaps made with animal fats a bit "difficult" to use, but when you realise a lot of soapmaking firms use tallow in one form or another, and you've been using their products without flinching, you realise that the problem might be more psychological than anything.

And I really do feel that. "Primitive" hunters thank the animal for giving them its life and the chance to live on, and they don't waste one tiny bit of the beast. People don't seem to be getting into a worldwide vegan vibe, so until that happens, I'll carry on thanking the animal for permitting me to make nice soaps and using a part that so often gets chucked away.

Happy soaping everyone

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

I had an old school mate who wanted my soap decline cuz I use lard (I knew she would-she asked to buy some and I knew that is the first thing I needed to tell her). her reason was that all the chemicals etc are stored in fat and she didn't want that on her skin. I don't know if this is a real thing or not but I just told her I respected her point of view.

 

[sirtim100]

I had an old school mate who wanted my soap decline cuz I use lard (I knew she would-she asked to buy some and I knew that is the first thing I needed to tell her). her reason was that all the chemicals etc are stored in fat and she didn't want that on her skin. I don't know if this is a real thing or not but I just told her I respected her point of view.

That's a good point. But then again, what about the chemicals in olive oil? In coconut oil? In any of the oils one uses? To get oils that are 100% free of any chemical treatment is not easy.

A totally chemical free existence is hard to achieve under any circumstances nowadays. I dunno, it's a complex issue and I'm hungry.

I'm off to eat some toast, tomato, olive oil and jamon serrano on top. A treat for the gods...

Happy soaping everyone

 

[Michele50]

".....In response to John Harris' question, .....when you realise a lot of soapmaking firms use tallow in one form or another, and you've been using their products without flinching, you realise that the problem might be more psychological than anything.

I use the word 'soap' loosely here when I say that I think many don't realize that commercial 'soap' is made with tallow. One of my 2 best friends is a vegan (she wasn't while we were growing up, or even while young adults) but she uses (I'm CERTAIN unknowingly) soap made with tallow. I haven't the heart to tell her. I gifted her several soaps during a visit and 2 of them had lard just to see if she'd gift those to her mom or keep them. Her mom's not vegan and it was her birthday so I asked her to pick a couple from what I had to gift to her mom--her choice. LOL, she picked those with lard to give her mom. I was upfront that 2 had lard; she had already noticed I had 'lard' typed in bold, underlined, and red text. Long ago, many skin care products used lard/tallow for their skin-loving benefits--things cycle and I think now many are returning to using them.

"And I really do feel that. "Primitive" hunters thank the animal for giving them its life and the chance to live on, and they don't waste one tiny bit of the beast. People don't seem to be getting into a worldwide vegan vibe, so until that happens, I'll carry on thanking the animal for permitting me to make nice soaps and using a part that so often gets chucked away.

I've read many sites where hunting and the use of animal fats are very viciously spoken against and those who hunt are spoken of as wickedly evil people. I'm sure some take life for just sport and not 'food' but that doesn't mean all do that. A close relative raises all sorts of animals for her family's consumption and I know for certainty she pays homage to the animal before she's about to humanely kill it. She also gives thanks to it as she prepares it for consumption, thanking the animal for the life it gave to sustain their lives. I believe this is what you @sirtim100 are speaking about regarding your "Primitive" hunters comment. This is still carried on by many who both hunt and raise animals for food.

 

[IrishLass]

All this interesting talk about lard soaps, what about tallow? I have only used it once, and I rendered it myself. What nice soap. I used lard once, too I need to try that again.

Tallow is great in soap, too. One of my favorite soaps uses both lard and tallow (I find they complement each other quite nicely). I also use tallow in my hubby's shave soap.

Lard is very prolific where I live (southwest US)...I can buy it at every grocery chain in town, and also at every Walmart. Tallow, though, is much harder for me to find locally. The only store near me that I've found to sell tallow is Smart & Final (in 50# quantities). Thankfully, tallow can be easily purchased online for those that can't find it locally. Columbus Foods/Soapers Choice out of Ohio sells good, quality tallow.


Re: detecting/not detecting a piggy smell:
I find that noses are very individual things in what scents they can and cannot detect, such as folks that cannot stand to smell jasmine flowers because they smell like cat pee to them, etc... So far (thankfully), I've never been able to smell pig in my lard soaps....not even the lard batch in which I accidentally heated the lard to 160 degreesF before adding the lye. Go figure! lol For what it's worth, I normally soap between 110F and 120F, even with my lard soaps. Thankfully, no one else amongst my family and friends can detect piggy in my lard soaps either.


IrishLass

 

[szaza]

I was raised vegetarian and still don't like meat, so there's a high 'ick' factor for me when dealing with (dead) animal products. Coincidentally I have both lard and vegan soaps in my dish at the moment (for experiment's sake) and I feel I have to force myself a bit to use the lard soap. It's perfectly good soap, it's just psychological I guess (I'm prerry sure I've used animal-based soap before without noticing).

I understand why a lot of people like to use lard, it's cheap and it has a good fatty acid profile for soap.
What strikes me a bit in this conversation is the 'respecting the animal by using all of it' argument. It is definitely a good argument if you have your own lifestock and try to find ways to use all of the animal (in which case you wouldn't only be soaping but also tanning leather and making your own sausages with intestinal skins etc., or at least work with people who do so). On the other hand if you're buying lard from a grocery store because it's cheap, you're not really honouring the animal, you're financially supporting a (very wasteful) million dollar industry that made that animal's life pretty miserable.
Obviously I don't know how the people who used this argument source their lard, so this isn't meant to be towards them. I just felt the need to add a bit of nuance to the argument, because I think it can easily be used out of context.

 

[true blue]

Personally, I like how tallow makes my soap feel more than lard. Maybe it's just me, but between the two, lard seems to make a slightly softer bar? But oh yeah - I love my tallow soaps! As for smelling it in the soap, I don't think I can with either one, but I do hot process, so not sure if that makes a difference. Although ... I must say my unscented 'Old Fashioned Lye' (Lard & Tallow only with just a tiny hint of coconut) does smell different than my mostly veggie oil soaps that are unscented.

I have a friend who raises a few hogs a year - she gives me lard to render myself, for the little I use. But as for those in the US who buy their lard at the store ... it's really just a by-product of the hog industry. All the lard produced could sit in huge piles and rot and create a serious public health hazard ... and not a thing would change. Lard sales in the US (at least to the end consumer) are literally a drop in the bucket for the hog industry. Their goal isn't to make money off it - they just want it gone - that's why it IS so cheap! Keep America clean (in more ways than one) ... use lard soap! So yeah, I can see how it really does honor those poor animals - especially if you're someone who doesn't support the million dollar industry by purchasing various pork cuts at the meat counter.

 

[Mistrael]

Initially I had ruled out using animal fats for soap because my mother is vegetarian and squeamish about such things. But the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to use animal fats in my family's personal use soaps and just change the formula for things I give to Mom. After all, there isn't a single vegetarian in my house and money is spread thin enough already.

 

[Michele50]

Initially I had ruled out using animal fats for soap because my mother is vegetarian and squeamish about such things. But the more I think about it, the more sense it makes to use animal fats in my family's personal use soaps and just change the formula for things I give to Mom. After all, there isn't a single vegetarian in my house and money is spread thin enough already.

I have two very best, best friends and the one from childhood is Vegan now; I gift her soap made of only plant oils. Decades ago she moved so very far away and we were always closer than sisters so that broke my heart. We reconnected a little over a year ago (she was living then only 3.5 hours away). We re-connected and I gifted her some soap but before that, I asked her which were her favorite store-bought 'soaps.' The two she named both contained Sodium Tallowate-- real soap made from fatty tissue (or tallow) of animals (cattle/sheep) with sodium hydroxide. In the group of decorative soaps were 2 that included lard but I made it very evident that they included lard and it was her mom's birthday so I asked her to save to for her mother--a lady near and dear to my heart. I knew if she kept those 2 bars that she was aware that the soap she buys is tallow based soap; she gifted them to her mom who LOVED them. I don't have the heart to tell her that the soap she buys from Walmart is made from animal fats . She's Vegan due to her animal cruelty beliefs and I don't really want to open her eye that these few years she's been Vegan she's been using animal products w/out knowing. What I love about her and me is that no matter how many years we go off-grid we can pick right back up from where we left off. Literally decades have passed w/out any communication and then sit up til all hours catching up. With your mom being Vegan, please ask her if she was using tallow soap and didn't know it because it's listed under its INCI name would she want you to inform her of this. I appreciate it because I'm torn between telling her and not.

Running a simple Google search of 'list commercial soaps that contain tallow' produce this:
Soaps containing Animal fat:
Below, we have piled up some of the common brands of soaps that contain animal fat or tallow. You can have an idea of the product by going through it:

1. Basis
2. Camay
3. Cetaphil
4. Dial
5. Dove
6. Irish Spring
7. Ivory
8. Jergens
9. Lever
10. Neutrogena
11. pHisoderm
12. Purpose
13. Tone

I have actually (years ago) looked up various soaps and compared the ingredients--detergents, detergents, detergents (lol) and my skin hates these and tallow. I really never looked at soap labels before making my own soap; I'm sure she hasn't a clue. She's very watchful where foods are concerned but I bet she hasn't thought about the everyday items we use. One would be blown away just exactly what things have animal products in them and you'd never know unless you did extensive research. I haven't looked into the above list but I'd not be surprised if there was tallow in each...........and more.

 

[Relle]

Lard is actually really cheap - you can get it in grocery stores and Walmart. It's generally found in the same area as Crisco. It might get even cheaper if you were to buy fat (suet?) from the meat counter at your local grocery or ask about extra fat at any local slaughterhouse you might have and take to rendering your own. There's loads of pages about rendering lard or tallow online and with today's crock pots it's even easier to apply long term low heat without burning stuff.

Cjennmom, lard might be cheap in the US, but not in Australia, it's $18kg. I'm certainly not going to pay $18kg for fat. They keep it in the refrigerated section in the supermarket.

There are no Walmarts here, no slaughter yards in the city either. A lot of supermarkets while they keep meat, do not have instore butchers. I've been making soap quite a while, I know how to render fat. We use to have a butcher shop, the trimmings/fat and bones got collected, lever and kitchen use to get the fat for soap and the bones got crushed for fertilizer.

 

[Dahila]

what about other fats like Cangaroo, or emu?
Are they this expensive Relle?