Hard Vinegar Soap

[cmzaha]

If anyone wonders really wonders if water replacement with vinegar and the extra NaOH to react the vinegar makes a hard soap, the answer is unequivocally yes. I could not get back home in less than <> 12 hrs and I popped 2 wires on cutter. This being after the hubby told me not to pop any wires since he was not in the mood of replacing the wires After all it is a holiday!!

The soap was the 100% Avocado soap I poured before coming back to the parents yesterday

 

[Obsidian]

I'd love to try vinegar but I'm completely math incompetent.

 

[MorpheusPA]

I'd love to try vinegar but I'm completely math incompetent.

I think you just measure the number of grams of vinegar (household strength, not horticultural) that you use, and multiply by 0.0333.

Then add that to your initial lye amount for your recipe.

So if you use 100 g of vinegar, add 3.33 to the number of grams of lye you'll use.

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

Sounds interesting, does vinegar soap melt/dissolve quickly like 100% CO soap does or does it last longer like a softer soap does? I really hate the idea of my soap melting and running down the drain.

 

[DeeAnna]

My numbers are a tiny bit different than Morpheus', but not enough to matter.

Create you rrecipe just like you were going to use water. Decide how much vinegar you want to use to replace the water. (Many soapers do a full replacement.)

1 oz by weight (28 g) of commercial 5% vinegar neutralizes 1 g NaOH.

NaOH for vinegar, grams = Vinegar, grams X 1 / 28

Total NaOH, grams = NaOH for vinegar, grams + NaOH for saponification, grams

Vinegar acts more like salt, not like more coconut oil. Vinegar hardens the soap, but it doesn't make the soap more soluble. If anything, vinegar would make the soap somewhat less soluble.

 

[MorpheusPA]

1 oz by weight (28 g) of commercial 5% vinegar neutralizes 1 g NaOH.

NaOH for vinegar, grams = Vinegar, grams X 1 / 28

Total NaOH, grams = NaOH for vinegar, grams + NaOH for saponification, grams

So you use 0.0357 instead? No biggie, I trust your math more than mine, so I'll update my notes!

 

[DeeAnna]

I'm not the final authority on this, by all means, Morpheus. Your number may be more exact, and I welcome a discussion about this.

I sometimes simplify numbers slightly from what my calculator tells me if I don't think the simplification will cause trouble and if I think the simplification will make the concept easier to understand. If I was writing for a math-comfortable audience, I'd have no problem being more precise. Given many soapers are math-phobic, however, I'd rather have someone "get" a slightly simplified method rather than feel overwhelmed and not give it a try.

You say 0.0333. I say 1/28 (aka 0.357). To-may-toe or To-mah-toe?

 

[penelopejane]

The strength of your vinegar matters - as you see DeeAnna is using 5% vinegar some are 4% some are a bit higher.

Vinegar adds a different feel to soap than salt.
You will have to see if you prefer it or like it.

 

[DeeAnna]

5% acidity is the standard in the US for commercial vinegar sold for kitchen use. There is a "cleaning vinegar" that has a higher acidity, but that is not a normal grocery store item, AFAIK.

For vinegar at a different acidity, yes, one would have to adjust the conversion factor accordingly.

 

[cmzaha]

I use DeeAnna's 0.0357 and I have never seen other than 5% acidity when purchasing vinegar in a grocery store. I use white distilled vinegar. I actually purchase mine a a restaurant supply store because it is only a couple of dollars per gallon

 

[earlene]

I have seen vinegar sold at 5% and at 3% concentration, as well as at 6% (called 'Cleaning Vinegar' by some markets.) However, more often than not, the 5% is much more common in most places I shop. I was surprised when I found a 3% available at a store, but I really don't recall where that was.

So I always look carefully before putting the vinegar into my cart.

Same with bleach. They are not all made the same strength either.

 

[MorpheusPA]

Shh! My cheap bargain brand (we use the stuff by the gallon as fabric softener, glass de-sheeting, cleaners, and so on) works out to 4.7% if you call the company and beg. Once you find the company that makes your store brand. Which is a trial in and of itself.

Although they do allow that the concentration per lot will naturally vary a bit, and they won't absolutely guarantee 4.7%. But that's close enough for me, anyway.

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

I may have to try this. It sounds like you can replace all water or some portion of water. I think I will try with some portion of my water replaced with the vinegar to see if the soap is something we might like.

 

[Nanditasr]

1 oz by weight (28 g) of commercial 5% vinegar neutralizes 1 g NaOH.

NaOH for vinegar, grams = Vinegar, grams X 1 / 28

Total NaOH, grams = NaOH for vinegar, grams + NaOH for saponification, grams

Thanks; my (mainly) soft oil soap unmoulded in 12 hours, and it's really hard already (about a week later). In contrast, when I made the same recipe using no vinegar, it took over 48 hours, and it melts away in the shower, even though it's been two months.

 

[DeeAnna]

Speaking in general for those who might not know this -- A hard soap is not necessarily a long lasting soap, so don't make the mistake of thinking these properties are the same thing.

 

[soapmaker]

Just happened onto this now. So what are the benefits of vinegar? Just a harder bar?

 

[Nanditasr]

Speaking in general for those who might not know this -- A hard soap is not necessarily a long lasting soap, so don't make the mistake of thinking these properties are the same thing.

Yes, hard does not necessarily mean "less soluble" (my CO bars just melt away) -- I think this has been discussed in the thread https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/recipe-for-a-really-hard-bar.67389/.

In my case, I expected the vinegar one to just be harder; I did not exactly expect it to last longer -- that's why I was surprised and shared it here on this forum.

 

[Barmaid]

I am loving this thread! Making soap with vinegar has been in my To-Do notebook for ages, and you are all inspiring me to make something new and exciting!

 

[AshCaddy]

Yes, yes! I've been looking for a thread like this to help me with my ACV calculations. I'm new to soap making and so thankful.

Thank you!

 

[Veggiebin]

I’m with soapmaker’s comment above, what is the benefit of a bar made with vinegar? Nanditasr states that it lasts longer, but how is it on the skin? Is the pH lower? What are the actual benefits?