Hard Oils/Heated Lye Transfer

[Soaplizard]

I've been doing the heated lye transfer to melt my hard oils. Here is the recipe


72oz
Olive Oil Pomace 25%
Sunflower Oil 20%
Palm Oil 20%
Coconut Oil 20%
Castor Oil 5%

Super fat 3% Lye 33%

I know it's winter, but I'm wondering if I should melt the hard oils first instead of doing the heated lye method. I made this recipe twice, the same way. The first time I made this recipe, the batter thickened quickly once I poured the fragrance in (Butt Naked fragrance from Cierra Candles) so I had to move fast, but the soap came out alright. The second time I made this recipe there was a false trace and slight ricing after I Poured (Apple Sage Fragrance).....this is the second time I've experienced a false trace in my soap.

the next day I unmold and cut my soap and see that there are mini pockets of holes in my soap with a little bit of fragrance oil oozing out of it.


Any Advice?

 

[SoapDaddy70]

your recipe only has one hard oil so not sure why you would even need to do the heat transfer method. with all those soft oils you are probably soaping way too hot. Also your recipe is only adding up to 90%. What is the other 10%?

 

[AliOop]

That's a really big batch! Did you melt just the palm and CO with the hot lye solution? If so, I'm guessing the heat of the solution, plus all your fast-moving oils, made for the quick trace. Also, three of the four reviews for the Apple Sage fragrance said they experience acceleration, even when soaping cool.

If you get false trace and or ricing, the best thing is to keep whisking or blending until it smooths back out again.

 

[Soaplizard]

That's a really big batch! Did you melt just the palm and CO with the not lye solution? If so, I'm guessing the heat of the solution, plus all your fast-moving oils, made for the quick trace. Also, three of the four reviews for the Apple Sage fragrance said they experience acceleration, even when soaping cool.

If you get false trace and ricing, the best thing is to keep whisking or blending until it smooths back out again.

ahhh ok! the previous batch I made wasn't too bad and I used Butt Naked fragrance from the same supplier. I plan to HP it within this week.


As for the hot lye, I added it with the soft oils in there as well.

your recipe only has one hard oil so not sure why you would even need to do the heat transfer method. with all those soft oils you are probably soaping way too hot. Also your recipe is only adding up to 90%. What is the other 10%?

I don't have the recipe on hand but the remaining 10 percent is added to the olive O and coconut oil. I did the hot transfer because the coconut and palm oil are not soft when its cold out.

 

[TheGecko]

Fresh Lye is approximately 220F-225F. Given that your Hard Oils really aren’t that ‘hard’ (not like Cocoa or Kokum Butter), your batter accelerated because you were soaping hot. So I’m not what you did differently to get ‘false trace’ because you usually get it when you’re soaping too cool.

 

[AliOop]

Fresh Lye is approximately 220F-225F. Given that your Hard Oils really aren’t that ‘hard’ (not like Cocoa or Kokum Butter), your batter accelerated because you were soaping hot. So I’m not what you did differently to get ‘false trace’ because you usually get it when you’re soaping too cool.

Agreed. Sounds more like an acceleration that made the batter so thick that the FO didn't mix in very well.

 

[DeeAnna]

...your recipe only has one hard oil so not sure why you would even need to do the heat transfer method...

The OP's recipe has around 40% solid fats -- coconut plus palm. It doesn't matter if soap makers call a particular fat a "brittle" fat or "hard" fat or whatever. The key concern when using this so-called "heat transfer" method is the total amount of solid fat that the lye solution has to melt. Melting takes a lot more energy than most people realize, even if it's "only" coconut oil and even if the lye solution is smokin' hot.

The temperature at which a fat (or any other solid) will melt is not the same thing as the amount of energy required to melt it. The energy required is called the heat of fusion.

One source I found reported lard needs around 200 joules per gram to melt. Coconut oil may require somewhere between 100 and 200 joules per gram to melt. So the energy required for melting might range from a 2:1 ratio for lard:coconut to a 1 to 1 ratio. That means melting coconut requires a fair bit of the energy supplied by the hot lye solution.

The lye solution essentially melts the fat by lowering the lye solution's temperature -- what's called a "sensible heat" change for the lye solution. So while the lye solution is melting the fats, the temperature of the mixture is dropping.

The coconut oil will melt first, because its melt temp is around room temperature, give or take 10 F / 5 C. The melt temp of lard is around 100 F / 38 C, give or take 20 F / 10 C.

The problem with this is the temperature of the overall mixture can drop below the melt temp of the lard before the lard can fully melt. If a person is using the "heat transfer" method, they may be committing to making the soap without knowing for sure if all of the solid fats will fully melt. That's why I'm leery of this technique unless a person is using a fairly low percentage of solid fat. You ideally want a lot of hot lye solution in proportion to the amount of solid fat that has to melt.

Setting all this nerdiness aside --

I don't think the OP is soaping too hot -- my experiments with the "heat transfer" method showed the soap batter temperature usually ends up being fairly cool.

From the OP's description of how the soap batter behaved, it's my guess that the fragrances they used are causing acceleration.

It's not realistic to have ricing (acceleration and heating of the soap batter) AND false trace (solidification of the fat due to the batter being below the melting point of the fat) at the same time in the same pot. It's one or the other, but not both.

 

[AliOop]

Agreed, @DeeAnna, and I will correct my statement above to say "false trace OR ricing" - which is what I was thinking, but not what I wrote.

 

[DeeAnna]

I was responding to the OP's statement "...second time I made this recipe there was a false trace and slight ricing ..."

I can see now how my comment sounded like I was critiquing what you said and I didn't intend that. My apologies, @AliOop, for creating this misunderstanding. I realize now I should have included the quote from the OP in my previous post.

I think your sentence sounds fine with the "and" or with the "or".

 

[AliOop]

No worries @DeeAnna and actually I was glad you pointed it out. I'd rather not inadvertently perpetuate the idea that both could be happening at the same time.