Going to make soap for the first time EVORRRRRrrrrrrr

[cheesenoodle]

We got the 8 dollar crockpot
Probably going to order some NaOH from certified-lye.com?
Hand mixer should be easy to get, it doesn't have to be a stick mixer, right? [Edit: Answered here: http://millersoap.com/SoapFAQs.html#8 ]

I think we understand the basics of all of this. There were some good FAQs linked on this site in the introduction forum that I read.

Not sure which saponification chart to use (most credible?) though.

The other thing would be which oil(s) to use, ideally a cheap non animal oil would be great, not sure about the prices of oils though aside from knowing that olive oil is expensive.

Another important consideration would be vegetable oils that are somewhat sustainable or less detrimental to the environment, for example, palm and soybean markets are causing the destruction of the tropics in many areas.

I was happy to see that Neem Oil can be used, I got this as an insecticide and have a bunch just lying around, so that's an option, but it still doesnt solve my wonders about cheap/environmentally friendly oil.

So far there is a nice list of oils here to start looking at:
http://www.soapnuts.com/indexoils.html

Any suggestions would be great. Maybe this will be the thread that I update on as we progress through this.

 

[ericllucas]

Hi - welcome to the world of soap-making. I assume by the fact you have a crock-pot, you are intending on making hot-process (HP) soap.

I would get the hand blender. While there are other alternatives, I think the hand blender does the best job.

I get the basic oils from Sams Club, mostly. I haven't found them cheaper anywhere around here. I get 76 degree coconut oil from Walmart, too.

You might want to try the calculator here: http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp I used it and like its versatility. There are no doubt others that work well, but I've decided I like this one best.

Regarding the source of lye, I get it from the local Ace Hardware store. They keep it behind the counter because it can also be used for evil and nefarious purposes. I pay about $3.75 per pound there.

I think it would be fabulous if you keep going back to this thread and providing updates. Pictures are warmly received, as well.

 

[cheesenoodle]

Hi - welcome to the world of soap-making. I assume by the fact you have a crock-pot, you are intending on making hot-process (HP) soap.

I would get the hand blender. While there are other alternatives, I think the hand blender does the best job.

I get the basic oils from Sams Club, mostly. I haven't found them cheaper anywhere around here. I get 76 degree coconut oil from Walmart, too.

You might want to try the calculator here: http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/SoapCalcWP.asp I used it and like its versatility. There are no doubt others that work well, but I've decided I like this one best.

Regarding the source of lye, I get it from the local Ace Hardware store. They keep it behind the counter because it can also be used for evil and nefarious purposes. I pay about $3.75 per pound there.

I think it would be fabulous if you keep going back to this thread and providing updates. Pictures are warmly received, as well.

Cool, thanks, I plan on taking pictures. What I wonder is - does the lye at Ace Hardware match up to the certified-lye material? I wouldn't want the Ace Hardware material to have trace amounts of heavy metals or anything like that.

The soap calculator looks pretty cool.

 

[Sunny]

http://www.amazon.com/Rooto-Corp-1030-D ... B000PSFPRK

if you get the one in that picture you are good to go.

 

[cheesenoodle]

Thanks, I want to get that but I feel like there must be a difference between food grade NaOH and draino-NaOH. Is there anything out there to assuage my concerns on that one?

 

[Fragola]

Seems to me there are no good reasons for lye to contain toxic impurities. Which doesn't mean you have a 100% guarantee.

How do you use neem oil as insecticide ? Mine was very expensive, can't imagine using it as such .

Coconut seems to be an oil that many people use in almost every soap, up to 20-30% (or more).

We don't use a saponification chart, but usually a calculator, like this one:
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/Ca ... CalcWP.asp

If you can, it's a good idea to ask about the SAP value from your supplier.

 

[cheesenoodle]

Seems to me there are no good reasons for lye to contain toxic impurities. Which doesn't mean you have a 100% guarantee.

How do you use neem oil as insecticide ? Mine was very expensive, can't imagine using it as such .

Coconut seems to be an oil that many people use in almost every soap, up to 20-30% (or more).

We don't use a saponification chart, but usually a calculator, like this one:
http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/Ca ... CalcWP.asp

If you can, it's a good idea to ask about the SAP value from your supplier.

At work we have food grade NaOH and on it are minimum stated thresholds for % heavy metals such as lead so I can only assume that technical grade has more heavy metals due to looser controls on that.

Got neem a while ago bc I didnt want to use conventional or toxic pesticides. It's expensive but it Lasts long. Although I'm not sure how sustainable or environmentally friendly the neem industry is. Anyways I have a bunch but am thinking of a honey oat bar, I'll post it in this thread once I get off this phone!

 

[IrishLass]

Hand mixer should be easy to get, it doesn't have to be a stick mixer, right? [Edit: Answered here: http://millersoap.com/SoapFAQs.html#8]

If you aske me, I would definitely go with a stickblender instead of a mixer with beater blades.

Not sure which saponification chart to use (most credible?) though.

You will find slight variations from chart to chart because charts are based on an average range of SAPs, which can differ slightly from each other depending gowing conditions and on where the oils were sourced, etc... the differences do not necessarily mean that one chart more reliable than another. That's the reason why we make sure to superfat our soaps. I personally use this one: http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp If you want to know for sure what the specific SAP of the oil/fat you bought is, you need to contact the supplier of the oil/fat to see if they have one for for the specific lot of oil/fat you bought.

The other thing would be which oil(s) to use, ideally a cheap non animal oil would be great, not sure about the prices of oils though aside from knowing that olive oil is expensive.

Well, one thing about soapmaking is that it definitely does not come cheap. What kind of soap do you wish to make? Or in other words, do you want a hard bar that has a good balance of bubbly/creamy lather, or more of a creamy lathering but gentle bar, or a high bubbly/cleansing bar, etc...? I ask because the specific oils/fats you decide choose to use are the determining factor of the soap's outcome. In other words- not just any oil will necessarily do, so you need to know up front what kind of soap you want to achieve.

Another important consideration would be vegetable oils that are somewhat sustainable or less detrimental to the environment, for example, palm and soybean markets are causing the destruction of the tropics in many areas.

There are sources of sustainable palm (Spectrum brand palm is one), but just be aware that when it comes to making soap that palm, lard and tallow are considered staples because they are fairly inexpensive and have been proven over time and trial to be the basis making great soap. You can get the same kind of qualities that those particular fats add to soap by using cocoa butter, mango butter, etc..instead, but it'll cost you much more.

I was happy to see that Neem Oil can be used, I got this as an insecticide and have a bunch just lying around, so that's an option, but it still doesnt solve my wonders about cheap/environmentally friendly oil.

Neem can be used, but again- you want to make sure of the kind of soap you are hoping to achieve. By itself in soap, it won't much in the way of bubbly lather (and I've read from others that it tends to be stinky).

So far there is a nice list of oils here to start looking at:
http://www.soapnuts.com/indexoils.html

That's a good list. You can also determine the quality of a finished bar by looking at the fatty acid profile of your recipe. Here'a a good chart here:

http://www.soapcalc.net/info/SoapQualities.asp


IrishLass

 

[fiddletree]

You might not want to put honey in your first batch, because it can make soap 'act up' sometimes (can overheat). Also depends on the type of honey.... I once used a chestnut honey that made my soap stinky and really dark, but recently used an acacia honey that didn't add any color or smell.

Honey is great! But for your first batch you might want to go simple.

 

[debbism]

The Sage SAP chart is great.....As for lye calculators/SAP values, I use three.....

Summer Bee Meadow - my first 'go to' in formulating
The Sage
Soapcalc

I like Summer bee meadow because it allows me to easily resize a recipe to fit a mold in one click. I double check the lye and water amounts in the sage and then a final check in soapcalc to make sure it is well balanced.

Knock on wood, i do not have any problems in recipe accuracy. It takes more effort but I am maybe a tad OCD in this arena!

 

[hbmo]

Where did you get the neem oil from?

 

[Fragola]

Sugar is a good substitute for honey.

 

[cheesenoodle]

Ok, it's been a few days but I'm itching to get this going. I GOTS SOAP ON THE BRAIN!

This is the recipe, taken from Steve at http://www.colebrothers.com/soap/ which was posted in the first page of http://soapmakingforum.com/forum/viewto ... sc&start=0

Here it is:
Oats and honey
4.5 Oz coconut oil
2.5 Oz palm oil
9.0 Oz olive oil
2.3 Oz lye
6.4 Oz water

At trace add:
1tsp almond oil
1/8 cup fine ground oatmeal
1tsp warm honey

cheesenoodle's amendment: Also add 3% of oil weight essential mint oil
.03 * 16 Oz. Oils = 0.48 Oz. essential mint oil


I checked three soap calculators: SoapCalc, Sage, & Summer Bee Meadow
Going to use NaOH

SoapCalc
Note: Used 76 deg coconut oil

Lye...........................2.279 Oz.
Water........................6.080 Oz. (38% of oil weight)
Lye Concentration.......27.261 %
Water : Lye Ratio........2.668:1

I took note of Creamy/Bubbly being kinda low, but -

Soap Bar Quality Suggested Range Your Recipe
Hardness.......................29 - 54.......................40
Cleansing......................12 - 22.......................19
Conditioning..................44 - 69.......................57
Bubbly..........................14 - 46.......................19
Creamy.........................16 - 48.......................21
Iodine...........................41 - 70.......................59
INS............................136 - 165.....................154


Sage:
Lye........2.28 Oz.
Water.....4-6 Oz.

Summer Bee Meadow:
Lye.......................2.28 Oz.
Minimum Water......5.31 Oz.


So that gives an idea of what to do.
The lye is pretty consistent at 2.729 Oz.

The water is another thing - 4, 5.3, 6.4, and 6.08 Oz. are all choices on the table form one source or another here, including the maker of the recipe. Not sure what to choose on that one.

Some have mentioned honey being a problem as far as color goes, and as far as it leaking out of bars goes, but we're only talking 1tsp honey to a 16 oz batch of soap...that doesn't seem like enough to really cause much of a problem, I would think, and this recipe has been tried before anyways (lets assume..!).


Things I still haven't figured out about hot process:
-Can you line your mold with waxpaper? Or does it have to be special "freezer" or "butcher's" paper?

-Confused about what to do after trace: Here's what I have gathered:
You let it cook after trace until it gels in on itself.
When completely gelled in, you stir it (how much? by hand or with a stick mixer?)
If there are still chunks, keep cooking.
If not, you are done.
Is that correct or is there more to it?

-All cooking should be around 110F, and no more than 140F (?)



Almost there..just need a scale, stick blender, thermometer, and the oils.

 

[Sunny]

Things I still haven't figured out about hot process:
-Can you line your mold with waxpaper? Or does it have to be special "freezer" or "butcher's" paper?

-Confused about what to do after trace: Here's what I have gathered:
You let it cook after trace until it gels in on itself.
When completely gelled in, you stir it (how much? by hand or with a stick mixer?)
If there are still chunks, keep cooking.
If not, you are done.
Is that correct or is there more to it?

-All cooking should be around 110F, and no more than 140F (?)



Almost there..just need a scale, stick blender, thermometer, and the oils.

I've used wax paper before and it sort of disintegrated. It did not stay together like freezer paper. If you are using a mold that will come apart I'd say wax paper is safe. If you're relying on the paper to pull the soap out of the mold, I would not chance it... use freezer paper.

Before trace I use a stick blender. After trace, I stir the entire time I'm hp'ing (off and on with a heavy duty plastic spoon). some people do, some don't. When it starts to sort of look translucent, you may pull out a little blob and zap test it. If it zaps, let it continue to cook and try again later. If it doesn't zap, get it into the mold. It is possible to overcook it.

I don't temp my crock pot. I set it on high and let it go. This may or may not be advised for someone new. lol

Again... be careful with the honey. I would avoid using it on my first batch but you're not going to listen to me! Just be warned that your soap may smell off if the honey overheats or burns. Any smell will cure out eventually. It may also crack or weep. It may be completely fine, too.

good luck!

 

[SoapyD]

Also if you're adding oatmeal, make sure it's ground REALLY fine. Unless you are looking for soap that will not only clean your skin, but remove it from your hands as well due to the scratchiness. Ask me how I know!

 

[ericllucas]

Also if you're adding oatmeal, make sure it's ground REALLY fine

I assume you're using rolled oats, like Quaker Oats. Do you put them in the food processor until they're dust?

 

[ericllucas]

The water is another thing - 4, 5.3, 6.4, and 6.08 Oz. are all choices on the table form one source or another here, including the maker of the recipe. Not sure what to choose on that one.

Choose how fast you want your soap to come to trace. The less water you have, the faster it will come to trace. For a beginner, you don't necessarily want things happening fast and furious, you might want to try something in the 5.5 to 6.0 ounces region. As your experience and skill improves, you can run with 4.0.

 

[IrishLass]

Also if you're adding oatmeal, make sure it's ground REALLY fine. Unless you are looking for soap that will not only clean your skin, but remove it from your hands as well due to the scratchiness. Ask me how I know!

I can totally relate. My skin is such that even the finest of fine ground oatmeal scatches me too much, but the flaked baby oatmeal that I use ( http://www.earthsbest.com/products/product/2392390017 ) feels really nice to me in my soap.


IrishLass

 

[cheesenoodle]

Cool, thanks for all the help everyone.

The holdup now is that nobody around has Palm oil - not Costco, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Stop n Shop, Walmart, Target, or Bed Bath & Beyond...I guess that leaves Sam's Club (no membership there) and the internet (not enough time to wait),

So it looks like another recipe might be needed. Probably will do coco-olive-canola or just coco-olive off Miller's website and add oats/essential mint oil.

 

[judymoody]

Whole Foods has it. Look for Spectrum brand. It's hydrogenated. And a bit pricey. But if you're anxious to get started, it might be worth a splurge.