Goat's Milk LS Paste

[00Mia00]

Good morning!

I've been making CP soap for quite a few years now and am venturing into the land of LS. I've been researching and reading and learning.

On Saturday, I bit the bullet and put together my first batch using the method and details below:

Coconut Oil: 16.95 oz
Almond Oil: 8.45 oz
Olive Oil: 2.85 oz
KOH: 7 oz
Goat's Milk: 21.25 oz

I made this much like I would make a CP soap. I started with slushy goat's milk (to avoid scorching) and added my KOH to make my lye solution. I warmed my oils and combined them with my lye solution. I used my stick blender to get it to a medium trace and then poured it off into quart mason jars. Over the next few hours, I watched for separation and shook them every 30 minutes or so. After about 2 hours, it was no longer separating and I've left it to sit. It has since turned into a nice dough-like paste and darkened some as I expected.

The concentrate smell a bit "sharp". Almost like what my usual goat's milk/lye solution smells like. I've quadruple checked my recipe and calculations using different tools. Is it normal for the concentrated base to have some smell to it? My intent is to dilute, fragrance, add a preservative, and use as a foaming hand soap.

Thanks so much in advance for your thoughts and wisdom!

 

[Susie]

I would never use goat's milk in liquid soap. This is just asking for lots of bacterias/molds to grow in there. If you want it for label appeal, use just an ounce in place of some of the water to mix with your KOH, but using all of the batch liquid as goat's milk is just asking for problems. Not to mention the smell.

 

[00Mia00]

Hi Susie,

Thanks for your feedback. Can you tell me more about why you'd suspect this to be subject to lots of bacteria/mold? If it were not saponified, I could understand. I mean, if that were the case wouldn't my CP soap mold, too?

I was hoping to capture the same benefits from my CP goat's milk soap.

Thanks!

 

[Susie]

Liquid soap has a much higher liquid content than bar soap. This leaves you open to more bacterial/fungal growth than bar soap. Different rules.

 

[00Mia00]

Understood. This then goes into the whole to add a preservative or to not debate, I suppose. I intended to add preservative just as a precautionary, particularly due to the high water content.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

@Susie is spot on! Using 100% GM in LS is creating an environment for nasties due to the protein & sugars in GM. Using a preservative won't help. Preservatives are specific to acidic products like lotion. LS normally has an alkaline pH (9.5 - 11) and there is no specific preservative available for that because nasties don't normally thrive in an alkaline environment.

That being said, GM lotion that contains 10% GM can be preserved because with that small % it falls within the pH range that preservatives are made for. Higher than that tests the strength of whatever preservative you choose.

I made this much like I would make a CP soap.

I'm just guessing here, but it looks like you used a CP recipe, subbing KOH for the NaOH in the recipe? That doesn't work. Formulating LS has different requirements. See THIS THREAD.

On the plus side, your recipe will produce a nice LS without the goat milk.
60% Coconut Oil
30% Almond Oil
10% Olive Oil

Here's a tutorial to learn the basics: BASIC BEGINNERS LIQUID SOAP TUTORIAL

I used my stick blender to get it to a medium trace and then poured it off into quart mason jars. Over the next few hours, I watched for separation and shook them every 30 minutes or so. After about 2 hours, it was no longer separating and I've left it to sit. It has since turned into a nice dough-like paste and darkened some as I expected.

From the looks of it, while your method for making CP GM soap is correct, I doubt your LS paste is fully saponified. Go to #11-13 in the tutorial above to learn how to test your batch. Do not dilute until it passes the test. I find testing with phenolphthalein drops to be the most reliable but others use the ZAP test or soap-in-water clarity test.

If I'm right, I would cook the batch by heating the mason jars in hot water on the range top. I believe @IrishLass has instructions for cooking LS that way. Hopefully, she will come along and advise. Once done, you can store it in the fridge in a ZipLoc bag for later.
As for the smell, it may be the normal "ammonia" odor generated by GM soap. Not sure.

Hopefully, you can save this batch to play with. No batch is a "failure" when you can learn from it. (You can quote me on that! ) Once you make a batch without the goat milk, you can add a bit of your GM batch to it to get the results you first intended.

Here's a tutorial that explains what you need to consider when using goat milk in LS. Note the small amount of GM used to make the lye solution and let that be the guide for combining the No-GM LS with the GM-LS batch. At least, that's what I would do.

HOW TO CREATE LIQUID GOATS MILK SOAP

GOOD LUCK & HAPPY SOAPING!

ETA: I made GM LS -- once! A long time ago. The sediment that is pictured in the tutorial is typical of what I experienced. It just particulates out and settles to the bottom.

 

[00Mia00]

Thanks so much for your super thorough and thoughtful reply. I appreciate the opportunity to learn and these little (read BIG) pieces of wisdom are super helpful.

That being said, GM lotion that contains 10% GM can be preserved because with that small % it falls within the pH range that preservatives are made for. Higher than that tests the strength of whatever preservative you choose.

As funny as it is, this is exactly why I don't make GM lotion. I'm not fond of the idea of bacteria and the thought alone is enough to deter me. I suppose I thought that being saponified it would be okay.

I'm just guessing here, but it looks like you used a CP recipe, subbing KOH for the NaOH in the recipe? That doesn't work. Formulating LS has different requirements. See THIS THREAD.

On the plus side, your recipe will produce a nice LS without the goat milk.

I actually did a lot of reading and calculating to formulate a recipe using mainly oils I use in my CP soap. I'm happy to know that without the GM, it will make a nice LS. I did something right!

From the looks of it, while your method for making CP GM soap is correct, I doubt your LS paste is fully saponified. Go to #11-13 in the tutorial above to learn how to test your batch. Do not dilute until it passes the test.

My plan was to let it sit for 2 weeks or so to let it finish saponifying and then test. I like the idea of adding this to a non-GM batch! I will wait it out and see what happens. In the mean time, I'll read up on the links you sent.

Thanks again for your help. I'm sure I'll be back. ♥