GLDA, a modern alternative to EDTA

[Kcryss]

Doing some research on GLDA vs EDTA and came across a discussion on the Chemistcorner site. According to one of their long time formulators and a professional chemist (MarkBroussard), GLDA is a more effective chleator than EDTA. Don't know if he bases that on testing he's done specifically or not, but thought it was pertinent to this conversation.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/1267/citric-acid-for-chelation

This one is very interesting. They are actually testing Trilon M, but have included GLDA and EDTA for comparisons. https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/media/2016/03/TrilonM_Webinar_Combined_04192016_v12-FINAL.pdf

So, is the GLDA/EDTA (whichever is used) added to the lye water, or the fats or after trace/cook depending on cp or hp?

Also, it seems GLDA is more effective if combined with CA. CA is added to the lye water and dissolved before adding lye, if GLDA is added with the lye water, is there a potential to cause an unpleasant chemical reaction when the lye is then added?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

This one is very interesting. They are actually testing Trilon M, but have included GLDA and EDTA for comparisons. https://knowledge.ulprospector.com/media/2016/03/TrilonM_Webinar_Combined_04192016_v12-FINAL.pdf

So, is the GLDA/EDTA (whichever is used) added to the lye water, or the fats or after trace/cook depending on cp or hp?

Also, it seems GLDA is more effective if combined with CA. CA is added to the lye water and dissolved before adding lye, if GLDA is added with the lye water, is there a potential to cause an unpleasant chemical reaction when the lye is then added?

Trilon M sounds like a “super” chelator, is also biodegradable and has low environmental toxicity based on what I was able to find, posted above. It’s pricey though. Based on the link you added, I may splurge to buy the 10 lb bag from Save on Citric. If it doesn’t end up working in soap, I will try using it to clean my showers, bath tub and cars.

 

[cmzaha]

I have been really happy with my EDTA/ Sodium Gluconate combination. Will probably try SG buy itself at 1%. I added a link for a buyer I get it from on ebay.
https://tinyurl.com/ql5bwfx

 

[Mobjack Bay]

To recap a bit, is it GLDA that is chemically similar/may break down to mono sodium glutamate? For some reason I had it in my mind that it was sodium gluconate, but in re-reading, I think I had that wrong.

 

[Kcryss]

To recap a bit, is it GLDA that is chemically similar/may break down to mono sodium glutamate? For some reason I had it in my mind that it was sodium gluconate, but in re-reading, I think I had that wrong.

I think that was a concern (w/GLDA) that was expressed earlier in this thread, but there hasn't really been a response to the concern.
I did a quick search to see if anything has been reported as far as allergen's etc and haven't found anything to indicate a problem.
This article https://library.essentialwholesale.com/edta/ was written in 2016 and they have changed a large number of their products to GLDA from EDTA. I didn't see anyone expressing a concern or having come across issues with sensitivity/allergy's etc.

 

[Kcryss]

I have been really happy with my EDTA/ Sodium Gluconate combination. Will probably try SG buy itself at 1%.

Have you tried with just the Sodium Gluconate yet? I've never used it, but was thinking about getting some. Not sure if I should get that and GLDA or just the Sodium Gluconate.

 

[Jackie Tobey]

I have been really happy with my EDTA/ Sodium Gluconate combination. Will probably try SG buy itself at 1%. I added a link for a buyer I get it from on ebay.
https://tinyurl.com/ql5bwfx

How much of each are you using? I usually only use EDTA. But just received my Sodium Gluconate this week. Today was the first day using it. I added it to lye water at 0.5% of total batch weight. I also added 1% CA. But I wondered about using both EDTA and Sodium Gluconate. And no CA.

 

[cmzaha]

I use 0.5%, of my total batch weight, of each and dissolve them in whatever liquid I am using which is usually vinegar. I soap with 50/50 masterbatch so always have extra liquid to add.

 

[gloopygloop]

I have been using sodium gluconate for a while now and it seems to be fine, certainly no problems.

 

[Kcryss]

Just to be sure I understand, I'm a bit hard headed sometimes.

EDTA/GLDA/Sodium Gluconate are all chealators. Correct?
All three can also be used as preservative boosters. Is this correct?

Is there anything else they do that I'm missing?

 

[sarahmarah]

Just wanted to chime in—I’ve found that you can purchase small quantities from Essential Wholesale. There isn’t too much information provided on their site and I’ve since reached out to customer care to find what the concentration is just to so I know. Has anyone had success using this?
I’m attempting to use this in my next batch—I’ve never used a chelation additive before. Do you add chelators to your liquid before the lye? Or just throw it in with your oils? For those that use EDTA how do you add it to your soap? I assume the two can be added the same way at the same percentages .05-1%

 

[DeeAnna]

I do not add it to the lye solution. Here are my suggestions for using EDTA -- Soapy Stuff: EDTA

 

[sarahmarah]

I do not add it to the lye solution. Here are my suggestions for using EDTA -- Soapy Stuff: EDTA

Thank you

 

[debdeb54]

I have a slightly different problem. I made a huge batch of Castille LS...19 Mason qt jars. After I refilled my pump bottles I washed out the jar and it's cloudy. I assumed it was soap scum and have tried everything I can think of to scrub it off without sucess. I always store soap in wide mouth to make cleaning easier. I even tried using a magic eraser. I don't have any citric acid on hand so I haven't tried that yet and don't want to buy it unless it will work. Even my homemade cleaner that works to clean the tub hasn't worked. Now I'm wondering if somehow the surface is etched. The other jar wasn't like this when I refilled the dispensers. Any suggestions?

 

[earlene]

I don't know if it is etched yet, but over time it can happen, so perhaps you have stored enough soap in that jar so many times, that it is beginning to show. If so, the time will come when it becomes easier to break spontaneously as well, and you don't want that to happen when you pour something hot into the jar, especially if that hot thing is soap!

You could try soaking it in vinegar. If no improvement, I would then try soaking it in bleach. If it remains 'cloudy' looking, I would put it into the recycle bin.

 

[debdeb54]

Thank you! I can understand that lye might etch it but finished soap? Strange! I will try your suggestions.

 

[earlene]

You bring up a point, when you say 'finished' soap, which would mean soap that you are talking about soap after saponification is complete with so evidence of zap. If, in fact, your soap was zap free before you ever mixed it & stored it in the Mason jar, it doesn't seem likely that it would have any active lye remaining and should not etch.

If that is the case, then I would not assume etching, but something else. Perhaps all you need to try is a chelator in the jar. Perhaps you just have soap scum adhering to the glass making it cloudy. Maybe make up a strong solution of citric acid, or pour some pickle juice in the jar to set for a few days after using up a jar of pickles. See if that eats away at the cloudiness.

A link with ideas for cleaning cloudy glass (from flower arrangements that sit too long in a vase): 3 Simple Ways to Clean a Cloudy Glass Vase

 

[Johnez]

I have a slightly different problem. I made a huge batch of Castille LS...19 Mason qt jars. After I refilled my pump bottles I washed out the jar and it's cloudy. I assumed it was soap scum and have tried everything I can think of to scrub it off without sucess. I always store soap in wide mouth to make cleaning easier. I even tried using a magic eraser. I don't have any citric acid on hand so I haven't tried that yet and don't want to buy it unless it will work. Even my homemade cleaner that works to clean the tub hasn't worked. Now I'm wondering if somehow the surface is etched. The other jar wasn't like this when I refilled the dispensers. Any suggestions?

You can buy a small amount of citric acid at grocery stores, Target or Walmart. I've seen a containers for between $4-10. If it doesn't work you can start a new hobby-canning!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I assumed it was soap scum and have tried everything I can think of to scrub it off without sucess.

If you have Arm & Hammer Super Washing Soda on hand, I would try that.
1 tablespoon Washing Soda
16 oz. Hot (Boiling) Water
Let soak 5 minutes.

I use it to clean containers after making waxy products like balms, salves, and lip balm. Works like a charm. I strain the wax out before pouring it into another container to reuse.