Germaben II Preservative

[Carl]

I don't use any preservative in liquid soap. "Fully saponified soap requires no preservative." Source: Making Natural LIQUID SOAPS: Herbal Shower Gels / Conditioning Shampoos / Moisturizing Hand Soaps by Catherine Failor (Paperback)
I know I'm considered "Old School" when it comes to LS, but the basics have served me well over 14 years, and other LSers who sell commercially as well. It's not that I haven't tried new things as they came along, I have, and I do understand why some prefer to use those options in their process. I always come back to the basics.

If you check the top selling (non-syndet) liquid soaps like Dr Bronner's and many others, their list of ingredients does not include preservative. Most include antioxidants like ROE among others, and/or essential oils that have preservative qualities to help prevent the soap from going south.

Thanks Zany!
This seems to be the one thing that the "Soap Gods" cannot agree on.

In another post, I did an unscientific analysis on Etsy of seller's who were using preservatives. It was interesting to note that a large percentage of seller's do not preserve.

This could become another topic of conversation, but I think the key here is "Where does the liability or responsibility reside?"

The proponents of preserving feel that the preservative will stop mold/bacteria growth in the future, thus preventing injury, lawsuit, etc.
If a seller chooses not to preserve and the products get mold in say 3 or 4 months and someone gets harmed because of this, who is at fault?
Should the purchaser be intelligent enough to notice something growing in her/his product? And then throw it away. Or should the purchaser just know better to throw it out after X number of days.

If I go to the farmer's market and buy an apple and eat it 6 months later after it started growing mold and I get sick, is it really the farmer's fault? There was no "Use By" date on the apple. There are no preservatives in my apple.

Like I said though, this could be a totally different post and conversation, but I think the key is "Where does the responsibility of the soap maker end and the common sense of the consumer start?" I don't know the answer to this though.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Well, even Failor is not infallible [emoji23]

When people say "it simply cannot grow in liquid soap" it means rejecting the experience of those who have had something grow. What they mean is "I have read and/or never had something grow in my soap" which is VERY different indeed.

As for liability - the seller is, unless they put a "use by" date on the product and nothing happens within that time. Bear in mind, there is a lot of bad stuff in a product well before you start to see anything actually growing, so expecting the customer to see mould and think "I'll throw this away" is asking them to bolt the stable door when the neighbors call to say that the horse is running down the road two streets over

 

[Carl]

And I totally believe the members here who claim they've had stuff grow!

 

[Clarice]

I could understand why the LS paste would be very unlikely to grow stuff - but once diluted, it would seem that the growth potential has increased dramatically.

In part I guess it has to do with how quickly the diluted liquid is used up.

For any of you who use antioxidants - do you add them to the oils during the cook, or do you add them to the paste at the end?

Thanks!

 

[lsg]

I add preservative to my diluted soap. I usually keep my soap paste in the refrigerator until I dilute it.

 

[DeeAnna]

I don't add preservative to the soap paste, but I do choose to add it to diluted soap. If it's a basic liquid soap (fat, water, KOH), then it's my opinion that a preservative in the diluted soap is optional, not a requirement. For myself, I err on the side of caution and use preservative.

A preservative is mandatory for a liquid soap that contains ingredients that are microbial food sources (aloe and milk come to mind). Those food sources should also be kept to a minimum. The Making Skincare cosmetic chemists recommend keeping these ingredients under 1%. Even the best preservative won't work well if there's a lovely feast to encourage microbes to grow.

Ideally, antioxidants should be added to the fats before they are put into storage. A chelator is more effective than an antioxidant in reducing the chance of rancidity in soap. So if you can only use one or the other, use a chelator. A chelator to protect against rancidity can be added to the diluted soap -- the dosage should be based on the weight of the diluted soap.

 

[cmzaha]

I have had mold grown in diluted LS so always add a preservative. I use Suttocide™ A in my LS

I do not know if a preservative system can be considered a trade secret but it could be a reason Bonners do not list their actual preservative system. Just playing Devil's Advocate here

 

[DeeAnna]

I'd forgotten about that, Carolyn, but you're right -- some "fragrances" are preservatives that also have a scent. In many consumers minds, scent = "good" and preservative = "bad", so I can appreciate why companies take this tack.

 

[Carl]

I'd forgotten about that, Carolyn, but you're right -- some "fragrances" are preservatives that also have a scent. In many consumers minds, scent = "good" and preservative = "bad", so I can appreciate why companies take this tack.

Thanks again!!

Next question then (surprised no one else asked yet). Which fragrances are also preservatives? How can you tell which can act as a preservative and which ones can not?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I might be mistaken, but I think that was a reference to certain companies *cough*lush*cough* mixing scents with preservatives and calling it a fragrance, so they only need to list the "fragrance" on their label and no preservatives so it looks like their products contain none of those "horrible nasty" preservatives