Gelled vs ungelled CP soap

[lanafana]

I am a complete newbie. I've only made a few batches of soap with varying success so forgive my ignorant questions.

So, my soaps when cut are so smooth and creamy looking, but as they cure, they are looking quite "ashy". Not just the tops but the whole bar. I'll attach some before and after pics so you can see what I mean although I do t know if the camera will pick it up. You should know that I don't think any of my soaps gelled except a partial gelling of one. I wanted to know if this is normal for CP soap and if not what causes it and what can I do to prevent it.

Question two.... when I do the zap test for my soaps on the outside of the bar I still get a little tingle on my tongue, nothing drastic, but I feel something. When I cut the bar in half and do the same test there is usually no zap. Why?? Is this normal, should it concern me that I get a zap after approx. 2 week cure. Are ungelled soaps more zappy than gelled?

Last question, sorry!! My soaps as they cure are getting tiny white spots/dots on them. Is this normal (I'll attach pics) what causes it? Should I worry about it or is it just cosmetic? Is it from the lye?

THANK YOU EVERYONE for taking the time to read and/or reply!!! I never knew the intricacies of making soap. (Or how they'd drive me crazy)
Really ashy

Partial gel?

White spots (goat milk, shea butter soap)

 

[lanafana]

Here's what they looked like when they were cut (sorry I didn't know how to add pics to first post)


I've never seen soap cure, hence all the questions.

 

[AnnaMarie]

These are great looking soaps! I didn't do so well as a beginner! On white spots, I got a lot of those when I was new to soap making. I think part of it was not mixing my palm oil properly (melt all of bag/container and mix well before pouring out amount to be used). I don't know what your recipe is, so I can't be sure that's the issue.

On gelling, that is a preference issue. Gelling can make your soaps a little darker, so this might be a good option for bright/dark colors. It is normal for soap not to gel; it is normal for soap to gel- people try to go one way or the other as opposed to partial gel which tends to be a bit obvious. There are ways of controlling whether your soap gels or not. Some people put soaps in the refrigerator to avoid gel. I set mine outside, and don't insulate with a towel if I want to avoid gel. If I want to gel I get out a towel and insulate (and leave alone). This is something you will learn how to do with practice. I don't think gel/non-gel affects zappiness though. That is a different issue.

Spritzing the top of your soap with 91% isopropyl alcohol will help with soda ash. This is something I do and it works well.

On zapping, I can't really comment on your situation without seeing a recipe. I'm assuming you ran your recipe through the lye calculator and super fatted? If not, your soap could be lye heavy, but again, without a recipe I can't comment too much. That is interesting on the zapping though. I'd give your soap a few weeks and then try the zap test again.

I hope this helps! I'm sure others will chime in with other thoughts. Again, great job!
Cheers!
Anna Marie

 

[lanafana]

Thank you so much Anne Marie! I was concerned because of the metamorphosis as the soap cured. I'm not really as concerned about the beauty of the bar or how the gelling looks per se, just wanted to know what's normal. And the entire bar looks different, not just the tops. I was kinda expecting ash on the tops, but not a whitening of the whole bar!

I am too scared at this point to use my own recipe and try and tackle soap calc! I've only used a couple of recipes from a beginners book called "the everything soapmaking book" by Alicia grosso.

The white bar was:
Shea butter 4oz
Almond oil 8 oz
OO 10 oz
CO 10 oz
Castor oil 2 tbl
Lye 4.8 oz
Water (I used goats milk) 12 oz

The other recipe was:
OO 1lb 5 oz
CO 10.5 oz
Castor oil 2 tbl.
Lye 4.8 oz
Water/milk 12 oz
I also used orange and lemon grass EO and turmeric for coloring.

Thanks again!!

 

[FlybyStardancer]

As far as tingle on the outside but not the inside... Are you sure it's a true zap and not the taste of ash? Ash tastes NASTY and it can linger... It can also give you false results when doing a zap test.

And I'm a bit leery with how the castor oil is measured in volume in those recipes, instead of weight. It makes it hard to double-check that they were calculated out correctly, not to mention the inaccuracies inherent in measuring volumetrically. (For instance, America's Test Kitchen actually tested measuring spoons, and were rather put out by how variable they actually were. It was well above what they felt the standard should be. Then with measuring liquids you get people who get it level with the top of the spoon, and those who let it rise up so that only the surface tension is holding it in--that makes a difference!)

Anyways, back to the recipes... I went with the assumption that 1 Tbsp of castor oil is roughly 1 oz (no idea how accurate this is). At 2 oz of castor oil per recipe, the lye amounts should be enough to give you a superfat in the 4-6% range.

And any surface exposed to the air during cure can get soda ash, not just what was exposed in the mold.

 

[AnnaMarie]

These issues will solve themselves in time as you soap more Honestly, the appearance of my first soaps was not so lovely and the surface was spotty, streaked, ashy, etc. A few tips for technique:
-Run all your recipes through a lye calculator first, even the ones you get in books. Better safe then sorry.
-know your ingredients. A little knowledge on oils, lye, fragrances, etc. can go a long way to better soaping. There are lots of great, informational resources out there. Soap Queen blog is my favorite.
-mix ingredients properly- colorants too. My soap has much better texture and appearance now and I think proper mixing was a big part of it.

I did run your recipes through the lye calculator, and if I'm correct these are not super fatted. That's okay- just be sure to give them a good cure time and then zap test.

Cheers!
Anna Marie
Ps- I assumed 2 tbsp of castor were equal to an ounce when I calculated.

 

[lanafana]

Thank you flyby star dancer! So true about the measurements. I know I should really be measuring in grams and by volume only if I want the best results. I'm just afraid to venture out I to making my own recipes just yet! I've only made a few batches of soap and I figure just about everyone knows more than me at this point.

I figured it may be ash, but I never really read about ash all over the bar, just the tops. So thank you for that tip. Will dipping each bar in ice cold water after cutting help solve this problem or is that for something else entirely? And yes, I think it may very well be the ash (although I don't know the taste of ash) the ashier parts give me the tingle. Thank you so much for your insight....really appreciate it.

 

[lanafana]

Anne Marie thank you again. Those tips are very helpful. I don't know what it is about that soap calc that scares me, but I better get over it as there is no way around it. I think I am going to mess it up somehow, put it a wrong number accidentally, wrong ingredient...I don't know!

She says in her book that her recipes are formulated with a 5-7% superfat, so I don't know what the deal is there. Of course I will try and try again until I get better results! Any more tips are welcome

 

[FlybyStardancer]

Soap Calculators are nothing to be afraid of! I have one on my phone that I use to help me. I'll figure out what I want with one of the computer ones, and then enter the amounts into the one on my phone, then as I measure out my oils I update the one on my phone if I accidentally mis-measure, so I can get an updated lye amount (the calculator on the phone always agrees with SoapCalc, so I don't have to worry).

I've only heard of dipping cut bars in water to polish them, or to remove ash that has already formed. The only tips I've seen for preventing ash is to spray with rubbing alcohol, and to gel the soaps.

I'm not that much more experienced than you! I only started in January.

 

[ca_soap]

When it comes to zap testing, if it zaps there will be no doubt about it! When I started I was the same way until I actually zap tested a lye heavy soap. From that point on there has been no question about whether or not I got a zap.

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

Lana - to get used to SoapCalc, put in the recipe you get from the book and compare what it tells you to the book - does SoapCalc give you the same lye measurement? I ran your first recipe through SoapCalc and it says for 5% superfat use 4.69 oz lye, and through an excel calc I have and it gave me 4.8 oz to get 5%. I do find that these 2 tools give me slightly different results, but I like each for different reasons, so I tend to use both for every batch. But play with SoapCalc, compare it, read what it has to tell you. You will get familiar with it.

By the way - did you freeze your milk and used the frozen ice cubes or did you just mix the lye into the milk? I don't make milk soap, just haven't gotten around to it yet, but everything I read says that you should use it frozen or at least keep the temp down. Not sure what happens if you don't.

Good luck. you will get there

 

[lanafana]

Soap Calculators are nothing to be afraid of! I have one on my phone that I use to help me. I'll figure out what I want with one of the computer ones, and then enter the amounts into the one on my phone, then as I measure out my oils I update the one on my phone if I accidentally mis-measure, so I can get an updated lye amount (the calculator on the phone always agrees with SoapCalc, so I don't have to worry).

I've only heard of dipping cut bars in water to polish them, or to remove ash that has already formed. The only tips I've seen for preventing ash is to spray with rubbing alcohol, and to gel the soaps.

I'm not that much more experienced than you! I only started in January.

Thank you! Yeah, I out soap calc pro on my phone but have yet to use it. Is the one on the computer better? It's much easier for me to use my phone as I don't have access to a computer all the time these days.

I saw a video of a woman who was cutting her many loaves of soap, but she dipped them in cold water right after cutting. I couldn't remember why she did it, but was thinking maybe it would prevent the ash (on the sides of the bars) from forming. I'll have to try it out.

I am going to try and play around with soap calc this weekend and face my fears!!! Thanks again

 

[lanafana]

When it comes to zap testing, if it zaps there will be no doubt about it! When I started I was the same way until I actually zap tested a lye heavy soap. From that point on there has been no question about whether or not I got a zap.

Thanks! I have done a zap test on a batch shortly after cutting and felt the real thing! You are absolutely right, you know it's a zap. I just didn't know if there are different levels of zapping. Is it only the zap that gives you a real jolt something to worry about? Or is a little tingle on the tongue also a concern? I've read both here on this forum. I've read that if there is any lingering kind of tingle on the tongue this could mean the soap has too much lye and I've read only to worry about the real ZAP that throws your head back in shock, lol. Is it that the light tingle just means that it has to cure a bit more, or is it that any level or intensity of zap is bad? Wasn't sure about that, although I've used a couple and they feel fine on my skin. But I've read people suggest that if there is any zap sensation whatsoever you should rebatch because it's lye heavy . I can't even make a proper batch, soooo.....rebatching OMG, can't imagine how I'd mess that up!

 

[lanafana]

Lana - to get used to SoapCalc, put in the recipe you get from the book and compare what it tells you to the book - does SoapCalc give you the same lye measurement? I ran your first recipe through SoapCalc and it says for 5% superfat use 4.69 oz lye, and through an excel calc I have and it gave me 4.8 oz to get 5%. I do find that these 2 tools give me slightly different results, but I like each for different reasons, so I tend to use both for every batch. But play with SoapCalc, compare it, read what it has to tell you. You will get familiar with it.

By the way - did you freeze your milk and used the frozen ice cubes or did you just mix the lye into the milk? I don't make milk soap, just haven't gotten around to it yet, but everything I read says that you should use it frozen or at least keep the temp down. Not sure what happens if you don't.

Good luck. you will get there

Thanks so much for the encouragement, it's really needed!! I will play around with soap calc and maybe try out one of my own recipes this weekend. If I am successful, I think this will help me get over the hump. But if it's an epic fail it may be back to the book recipes! No, really, I know this is what I want and what makes a great soap maker in the long run. To know your ingredients and really understand what goes into your soap is the only way to go. Hopefully I will get there!

With the milk soap I did freeze the milk first before mixing with the lye. I froze it and also put the bowl in an ice bath. But I realized this kept the temps too low and I didn't want to risk the lye not dissolving all the way, so I just used the frozen milk with no ice bath for other batches. Sometimes I saw little balls in the lye mixture. I wasn't sure if that was lye that hadn't gotten incorporated or if it was fat from the milk. Next time I think I'll strain the lye mixture before adding it to the oils. Such a learning process, and such fun! Hopefully I'll get better with practice. . .