Gel Phase - is it necessary?

[penelopejane]

Kiwi moose you said “from memory” when telling us your recipe. I hope you are writing all your recipes down accurately so that when you make the perfect soap you can replicate it.

I have a KD 8000 scale and it is excellent. Try taking the EO off the scale and putting it bck on again. Unfortunately what happened with your scales is what happens when they aren’t good enough for soap making. So annoying.

In soap calc you can adjust the lye concentration which alters the amount of water in the recipe. What was your initial lye concentration and what was the final ly concentration when you rechecked it?

Castor is a pain. I use 5% maximum.

Oatmeal won’t lead to soft soap.

 

[Candybee]

I agree re the scales. The scale you are using does not sound efficient enough for soap making if it is not registering your EOs. I also have an Escali KD scale which weighs in lbs, oz, and grams. I can weigh even the smallest amounts of powdered micas and EOs. You must be able to accurately weigh all your ingredients.

RE the castor, 20% is super high and I can't imagine any soap needing that high a percentage. The most I have ever used was 10% of my recipe for a very high conditioning type of soap and for my dog soap. Those are the exceptions only. The majority of my soaps I use only 5%. A little bit of castor goes a long way. Much more than 5% can create a soft soap. 10% makes a very soft soap for me but will harden up in a couple of months but the hardness property is very low and stays that way.

I would switch out 15% of that castor for olive oil and use only 5% castor. Also, if you change your recipe to try a new oil or oil configuration you must always run it through a reliable soap calculator so you will get the exact amount of lye to use.

Wanted to add I use 2 tbsp of colloidal oatmeal for a 5 lb batch of soap. That's a 56 oz oil recipe giving me 5 lbs of soap that equals 3 1/2 lbs oil. I love oatmeal in my soap but found its better to be thrifty rather than overdue it.

 

[dixiedragon]

I will say I'm in the minority who don't think weighing fragrances is required. Fragrances (EOs and FOs) are close enough to the weight of water that I'm comfortable going with volume vs weight.

Going to your original question: Gel or not to gel? It's a personal preference, and it depends on a lot of things - your ingredients, your goals, and your process.

I personally am a geller. I like the way it makes colors pop and the way it's ready to unmold faster. And frankly I just love seeing that spot start in the middle and grow until it is corner to corner. If you don't know what you are doing, it's possible for the soap to get too hot and for you to get what's often called "alien brains" - though that's an effect I would love to get and have never gotten! You can also get tunneling (where the soap gets too hot in the middle and separates, leaving a tunnel). Your whole batch can get too hot and separate, thought it's easy to save it by just dumping it in a crock pot or into a soap-safe metal pot (stainless steel) and cooking it. (Look up Hot Process to see what this looks like).

Not gelling - by keeping your soap cool you avoid overheating problems, but sometimes you don't have enough heat and the soap will separate because of that. IMO if you are going to not gel, you need to incorporate more stirring. To a certain extent (again, IMO), you can swap stirring for heat and vice versa. Not 100%. But some.

Another advantage of not gelling is that some FOs will change or fade during gel.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Kiwi moose you said “from memory” when telling us your recipe. I hope you are writing all your recipes down accurately so that when you make the perfect soap you can replicate it.
In soap calc you can adjust the lye concentration which alters the amount of water in the recipe. What was your initial lye concentration and what was the final ly concentration when you rechecked it?

Oatmeal won’t lead to soft soap.

Don't worry - when i said 'from memory' it was because I was at work and my recipe was at home.

ooh - Dixie Dragon you daring dragon you! I must say that I'm a 'she'll be right' (NZ saying meaning it'll be ok) kinda girl when it comes to the EOs as well. The quantities are very small and added at trace anyway so it's not like they will affect the saponification. I ended up taking them off the scales and re-weighing as PJ has suggested, subtracting the weight of the measuring cup I was using. But I also used sight - how much was in the bottle and how much I has used in terms of mls as a guide.

I think I'm scared of gel and the things it can do. And I like the look of creamy soap rather than transparent. Will try another batch of soap this weekend with less castor and see how we go.

Thanks all for the stimulating conversation.

 

[DeeAnna]

At trace, the lye is still very active, so you don't gain anything by adding things at trace. I know that is something you hear a lot in soaping circles, but testing has shown the "add at trace" concept doesn't actually work. It's just as effective to add ingredients like fragrance or "that special superfat" up front. That also reduces the chance of forgetting to add those nice things.

 

[Zing]

I'll be redundant and say a little bit of castor oil goes a long way. I use 4 to 5% and for me, castor oil is a MUST! There's a HUGE improvement in lather! And KiwiMoose, I'd encourage you to just experiment with gelling. Use the same recipe gelled and ungelled and compare and contrast, especially one with colors. Best wishes and let us know how your next recipe turns out.

 

[penelopejane]

Gelled soap isn’t transparent.
Partial gel is a real pain.
Might be an idea to make a gelled and a non gelled soap and compare.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I think I read somewhere that castor oil can actually precipitate gel phase? Is that correct?

 

[shunt2011]

I've not heard or experienced an issue with gel using castor. It can cause soap to trace quicker if too much is used though.

I too gel all my soaps. I like being able to un mold sooner as well as the more vibrant colors.

Your soap may remain soft for quite some time due to the large amount of castor. May even be sticky.

It's unusual for soaps to gel in individual molds without some help. What temperature did you soap at? I would also recommend adding your EO/FO to your oils before adding your lye or adding them at emulsion. Waiting for trace then adding them can cause issues if you aren't familiar with the scent. Some EO/FO's will cause acceleration and if you are already at trace you may not have time to get it into the mold.

Making small batches you should be fine measuring by ml. Larger batches, I prefer to use weight for accuracy. An accurate scale is important for measuring when making soap.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Woot! Here’s my very sticky, castor oil-laden soap bars successfully unmolded. Now to wait two years for them to cure, lol! I’m pleased they at least came out of the Molds, I thought they may have been ‘glued’ in. They smell divine - Rosemary, May Chang, Cedar wood and Bergamot EOs

 

[Zing]

I'm going to steal that essential oil blend!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Zing - It's my 'Itchy and Scratchy' blend I call it. Ideally for problem skin (I used Neem Oil and Castor in the soap itself)