Fragrance Oils and Trace

[chrysta]

Hello all!

I made two identical batches of soap earlier today. In both batches I mixed some fragrance oils together but all the fragrance oils were labeled as behaving well in cold process soap.

Batch A worked beautifully! I soaped around 80 degrees and it gave me plenty of time.
Batch B accelerated like crazy! I had to work so fast and ended up coming up with a plan B at the last minute. I soaped this batch around 100 degrees.

Any ideas why these two batches were so different? If all the fragrance oils were labeled as behaving well in CP soap...can micas cause acceleration? Im stumped!

Thanks!!

 

[steffamarie]

It would help if you posted your recipe, additives, and which FOs you used! Otherwise we can't really give you specific advice. I would guess your temperature difference affected it but without details I can only guess.

 

[chrysta]

Ah yea..I guess that would help! Ha!

30% coconut oil
40% olive oil
20% palm oil
5% almond
5% castor

Batch A: Soaped at around 80 degrees.
Yuzu from BB
Pink Grapefruit from BB

Micas were:
Orange Vibrance from Nuture Soaps
Mango Tango from Nuture Soaps
Titanium Dioxide

Batch B: Soaped at around 100 degrees.
Lush Succulent from BB
Clove and Aloe from BB

Micas were:
Shamrock Green Mica from BB
Kermit Green from BB
Titanium dioxide

 

[steffamarie]

Well I'll tell you right off the bat that palm oil does not help with keeping things fluid for a long time. Katie's blend is a great recipe but I've noticed my palm recipes move a lot faster, especially the warmer they are. Those FOs all ought to have performed well, so I think the main thing is your temperature. If you need more time, keep it cool, even room temperature. You can also play with substituting something different for the palm. If you're open to it, lard makes a beautiful soap and gives plenty of time to work. I've heard from people that castor affects trace but I still use it at 5% in all my recipes and the bigger players in that are my hard oils.

 

[chrysta]

You are awesome and thank you so much! I have been playing around with different formulas, specifically palm free. I am vegan so lard is out for me (although its good to know) I'll try soaping a bit cooler again and see if it slows down a bit. Any suggestions for a good slow moving palm free recipe? I've been soaping every free moment I get but I still am learning a bunch. I do love Katie's recipe and have had good luck with it. So sounds like it was the temp that got me on the second batch. Thank you for your help!

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

yes I am learning the hard way that micas can cause acceleration--if it has TD in it. most of mine seem to, so I am looking for some that don't. I have had it happen when soaping at 89 degrees

 

[shunt2011]

Palm will make your batter move quicker. TD can as well. I’ve never had micas affect my batches though. Unless they have TD in them.

 

[steffamarie]

As for vegan palm alternatives, lots of people use butters like cocoa butter to help harden the soap (although butters can also make your soap move). There are lots and lots of threads about vegan recipes on the forum, such as this thread. Lovin Soap also has an article here. Sometimes Googling instead of using the forum search bar can turn up some more results - here's a link to my Google search. Grab a coffee, a pen and paper, and start drafting some test recipes!! Have fun with it!!

 

[dibbles]

I mainly use micas for coloring and I wouldn't say they affect my trace, even when they contain TD. Most of mine do and the majority are from Nurture. TD alone and activated charcoal will speed things up for me. Palm makes my batter move faster than the colorants. You are using Royalty Soaps recipe, and Katie soaps at 70-80 degrees. I would put most of the blame on the temps and the palm.

 

[earlene]

In my experience clove accelerates, although I have not used the specific FO you used. I have also found TD to speed up the batter and some green micas I have also contain TD in the mix and they also speed up trace.

 

[snappyllama]

I have found that some micas do not behave with some FOs. I had a batch a while back where I split into several colors... only the one with green accelerated. I've used that same mica in a lot of other batches and never had a problem.

Also, mixing FOs is a roll of the dice... just like kids. Jimmy and Jane might be perfect angels alone, but misbehave if they sit next to each other in class.

 

[chrysta]

Interesting! Thank you all so much for the info! I took notes down so in the future I can refer to it. I just remade another batch and let it cool down to about 80. I did use different micas and fragrances but the soap behaved how I thought it would. But I'll keep playing around. I used charcoal in the third batch and noticed that one accelerated quicker than the colors.

@steffamarie Thanks for the info and link! I actually just got some mini loaf molds so I can really begin experimenting. I cant wait!

 

[amd]

I believe the interaction of the combined FO's may be the culprit. This happened to me over the weekend when I combined an ale FO with a fruity mango FO, neither one have given me problems before but mixed together the soap had mild ricing and major acceleration. Even though the FO's separately are well-behaved, they may not be when combined together and begin interacting with each other's fragrance components.

 

[cmzaha]

If you go over 20% palm I would not soap so cool, in fact at 20% I would soap warmer. Palm with thicken at cool temps creating a false trace until the batter start heating up.

 

[Diane Marie]

You are awesome and thank you so much! I have been playing around with different formulas, specifically palm free. I am vegan so lard is out for me (although its good to know) I'll try soaping a bit cooler again and see if it slows down a bit. Any suggestions for a good slow moving palm free recipe? I've been soaping every free moment I get but I still am learning a bunch. I do love Katie's recipe and have had good luck with it. So sounds like it was the temp that got me on the second batch. Thank you for your help!

Who is Katie , what is her Recipe?

 

[shunt2011]

Who is Katie , what is her Recipe?

Probably Katie from Royalty Soaps. She sometimes posts her recipes on her YouTube channel.

 

[Diane Marie]

If you go over 20% palm I would not soap so cool, in fact at 20% I would soap warmer. Palm with thicken at cool temps creating a false trace until the batter start heating up.

I think that happens to me today

Probably Katie from Royalty Soaps. She sometimes posts her recipes on her YouTube channel.

Oh ya I believe she uses a variation of the “trinity “ Olive, Palm and Coconut?

 

[dibbles]

Who is Katie , what is her Recipe?

Yes, Katie of Royalty Soaps. She posts her recipe with each YouTube video and it is in post #3 of this thread.

 

[Diane Marie]

I seen her master batch by the # is for sale about a month ago at Nurtures Soap.

 

[penelopejane]

I used charcoal in the third batch and noticed that one accelerated quicker than the colors.

AC accelerates for me too.