Thank you DeeAnna.
It's been 14 hrs or so and the oil has separated, sitting on top. If I did a zap test do I mix it up first?
Formulating Liquid Soap
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It's been 14 hrs or so and the oil has separated, sitting on top. If I did a zap test do I mix it up first?
Is this still in paste form, or liquid? If liquid, you should have zap tested the paste, if paste, then no need to zap test if the oils are sitting on top. There is not enough alkali to react with all the fatty acids (hence the oily layer on the top), much less leave a zap. Don't throw it away, however! You can mix more (new) KOH with water (I would use 1:1 ratio), and add that a little at the time until all of the oily layer gets mixed in. Do wait between additions, though, you want to give the reaction time to take place, especially if both are room temperature. I would plop my paste in the crock pot and heat it up to speed the reactions. You are going to be doing a lot of mixing and adding, then waiting.
"The numbers" don't relate as well to the properties of liquid soap as they do to bar soap. The cleansing number (% of lauric and myristic acids) is the only one that I think relates to LS. When I want to look in more detail at the properties of a LS recipe, I usually check the fatty acids.
Yes, too much coconut (the % of lauric and myristic acids, to be more correct) can be drying. LS recipes for bathing and hand washing often have a little higher % of coconut than bar soap to get the lather going, but that's not a universal thing, just a tendency. Some people make a 100% coconut liquid soap for laundry or household cleaning -- I think Susie does -- but folks say their hands get pretty dry without gloves.
Another issue with LS is that one squirt contains quite a bit of soap -- much more than you'd get from rubbing a bar of soap. More soap, however mild it may be, means more cleaning power and that can mean dry skin too. And it also means more soap down the drain. One way to control over cleaning and waste is to dilute the soap enough to use it in foamer bottles.
Yes, you can theoretically use any bar soap recipe to make a liquid soap, just recalculate it for KOH. There are reasons why you might not want to, however.
If clarity of the LS is important to you, you need to reduce the % of palmitic and stearic acids in the recipe (lard, tallow, palm, butters) as low as is reasonable. Also avoid fats that have a high % of unsaponifiables -- avocado, jojoba, etc. If clarity isn't a goal, then ignore what I just said.
Castor is often used in a higher % for added clarity. The Irish Lass - Carrie recipe that is pretty popular calls for 10% castor.
Keep the oleic acid around 50% give or take if you want to have a honey thick soap from dilution alone. Too little oleic acid, and the soap will almost always be thin and a separate thickener is required.
Too much oleic acid and you may have to add a lot of water to get a pourable product -- many high oleic soaps like to stay in a jelly form. In that case, the final diluted product may have so little soap in it that it won't perform well.
For your first batch, you really can't go wrong with IL-Carrie recipe. Here's my take on this recipe:
Olive Oil 65% (can substitute part or all of this with any high oleic oil like HO safflower, HO sunflower, avocado, etc.)
Coconut Oil 25%
Castor Bean Oil 10%
Superfat 3% or lower
Lye concentration 25% (water:lye ratio of 3)
Use all KOH as the alkali
If you don't know the KOH purity, choose the 90% pure option if using Soapee or Soapcalc
Can use all water to make the soap or can use up to 2 parts glycerin to 1 part water.
I have used 1:1 glycerin:water, 1:2 glycerin:water, 2:1 glycerin:water, and all water to make this and other LS recipes. They all work.
I do not recommend using the 100% glycerin method for safety's sake.
I recommend using distilled water, not drinking water.
Hi! What’s the best way to formulate liquid soap recipee? Can we just use any CP soap recipee? What’s the best percentage of oils ( hard : soft ) to make a great liquid soap ( for body )? Thanks
Robyn Green
New Member
Robyn Green
New Member
I use a different recipe for liquid soap. My favourite is 80% olive oil, 10% coconut oil and 10% castor oil. KOH and distilled water. (0% excess oil).
For clarity I make sure the mix has come to a very thick trace with no oil floating on top. You will have to mix for a long time unless you can get some paste from a batch before to kick start the trace process. Once traced I cook it up in a slow cooker, on Low. You can use a double saucepan but slow cooker is easier. Fill half way other wise it might spill over the edge when cooked. Cook for two and a half hours stirring every half hour. When cooked put aside paste for when you are ready to water it down. Water down one part paste to two parts distilled water. This is a beautiful all purpose liquid soap that is very moisturising on the skin. Also cleans pots and pans really well. To create a shower gel just slowly add some salt water to the liquid soap until you get the thickness you want. I have been making this for 15 years and love it
For clarity I make sure the mix has come to a very thick trace with no oil floating on top. You will have to mix for a long time unless you can get some paste from a batch before to kick start the trace process. Once traced I cook it up in a slow cooker, on Low. You can use a double saucepan but slow cooker is easier. Fill half way other wise it might spill over the edge when cooked. Cook for two and a half hours stirring every half hour. When cooked put aside paste for when you are ready to water it down. Water down one part paste to two parts distilled water. This is a beautiful all purpose liquid soap that is very moisturising on the skin. Also cleans pots and pans really well. To create a shower gel just slowly add some salt water to the liquid soap until you get the thickness you want. I have been making this for 15 years and love it
Thank you for the reply! How can we determine the percentage of the oils? Just as we like? Is there any do’s and dont’s on how to formulating recipee for ls?
Here are two articles I've written on this topic --
https://classicbells.com/soap/liquidSoapMaking.asp
https://classicbells.com/soap/liquidSoapRecipes.asp
https://classicbells.com/soap/liquidSoapMaking.asp
https://classicbells.com/soap/liquidSoapRecipes.asp
Thank you. I just made a batch of LS using Irish Lass recipee but only using water. Not glycerin. I cooked for 2-3 hours but it stuck in the mashed potato stages. When I extend the cooking time, it gets hard. But still chunk of white. Never reached translucent stage. I test my soap it says 9.3 in ph meter. But when I checked it with phenolphthalein solution, the soap solution ( I mix a bit of soap into distilled water ) and it still turn into dark pink. I checked every 30 minutes, and the results is the same. Always dark pink. Is my paste safe to use? Or am I failing?
And do liquid soap needs to cure? Thank you
Does Irish Lass recommend using a pH meter or phenolphthalein solution to check the soap? If I remember correctly, she recommends a zap test (tongue test) instead. I won't go into the reasons why at this time, but I suggest you follow her instructions in the tutorial. Here's a tutorial about how to do the zap test: https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-to-properly-safely-conduct-the-zap-tongue-test.63199/
If you read the first of my articles I say this --
"...Some authors provide detailed descriptions and photos of the visual changes their soap makes as it saponifies. These changes may or may not happen to your soap. If you do not see every visual stage shown in the tutorial, do not fret. Just keep moving forward with the process, and your soap will very likely turn out just fine. It is not necessary to cook liquid soap for hours and hours, although I know many recipes are written that way. Most liquid soap is fully saponified within about two hours, and quite often the soap is done within one hour..."
No, liquid soap does not need to cure in the same way that bar soap does. But there is a benefit of allowing liquid soap to sit for a short time -- maybe a week or so. It lets the soap finish saponifying that last tiny little bit so the soap is as mild as possible before use. That time also allows any solids to settle or float, so they can be removed if you want to do that. Sometimes you'll see changes in texture during the first week or so, but the changes are small in my experience so I am not very concerned about that.
If you read the first of my articles I say this --
"...Some authors provide detailed descriptions and photos of the visual changes their soap makes as it saponifies. These changes may or may not happen to your soap. If you do not see every visual stage shown in the tutorial, do not fret. Just keep moving forward with the process, and your soap will very likely turn out just fine. It is not necessary to cook liquid soap for hours and hours, although I know many recipes are written that way. Most liquid soap is fully saponified within about two hours, and quite often the soap is done within one hour..."
No, liquid soap does not need to cure in the same way that bar soap does. But there is a benefit of allowing liquid soap to sit for a short time -- maybe a week or so. It lets the soap finish saponifying that last tiny little bit so the soap is as mild as possible before use. That time also allows any solids to settle or float, so they can be removed if you want to do that. Sometimes you'll see changes in texture during the first week or so, but the changes are small in my experience so I am not very concerned about that.
Is there aren’t any methods to check if the paste cooked or not beside the zap test? Because I am currently pregnant and I kinda scared to do it
What If I use the soap directly after I dillite it? Would it be harsh for my skin?
Thank you so much for the reply
Is there aren’t any methods to check if the paste cooked or not beside the zap test? Because I am currently pregnant and I kinda scared to do it
What If I use the soap directly after I dillite it? Would it be harsh for my skin?
Thank you so much for the reply
If you think it is safe to brush your teeth with toothpaste, make soap, or wash your hands with soap, then it is safe for you to touch the tip of your tongue with a bit of suds from soap that you made yourself from ingredients you can actually pronounce. No one said you had to drink the stuff.
There is no need whatsoever to cook that paste. You get it to full emulsification (or paste if you are in a hurry) and put the lid on it and walk away. I generally check for gel after I clean the kitchen up from making soap, then in half an hour. If it is gelled, I zap test and begin dilution. Cooking does nothing more than waste time and power (or gas, or whatever you use to cook with). The formula of the soap has everything to do with whether it is lye heavy or not. Not cooking. If your recipe is good, and your scale is good, then chances are that you are never going to learn what a zap feels like. You are testing to be sure that there were no errors made on any of those things. Not whether it is "cooked" or not. This is just your final safety check before you give that soap to people you love.
I try using another recipee, and when my paste look this , I try zap test, and there were no zap. But the paste is not translucent yet, and not hard. I can stir it easily with my spatula. Is that means my soap cooked or not yet?
If it’s cooked then is it okay to dillute it immediately? I only cook that paste about 1 hour, with HIGH setting in my crock pot.
Thank you
Attachments
Quick update, I cooked it again for 30 minutes. Did zap test, and no zap. Check the pH using pH meter, it says 8.5
When I try to dillute it (10 gr soap paste into 20 gr of distilled water ), the result is very cloudy
This is my 3rd batch using the recipee, but I usually cook the paste 4-5 hours, the dillution is almost crystal clear
Should I cook my soap longer?
Thank you!
When I try to dillute it (10 gr soap paste into 20 gr of distilled water ), the result is very cloudy
This is my 3rd batch using the recipee, but I usually cook the paste 4-5 hours, the dillution is almost crystal clear
Should I cook my soap longer?
Thank you!
You should not cook your soap at all. Did you not read my post?
If it is zapless, it is ready.
Cloudiness is a direct result of oils and how much air you mix in. Don't judge the soap by cloudiness.
If it is zapless, it is ready.
Cloudiness is a direct result of oils and how much air you mix in. Don't judge the soap by cloudiness.
Zap is an indication that there is too much lye, or not enough oil. If you have a zap, then add some oil. I would add about 1 teaspoon/5 grams at the time until it stops zapping. Just make sure that you get an immediate zap when you touch your tongue to the lather rather than an odd sensation/taste that is not immediate before you add more oil. If it is not immediate, it is not zap.
But, assuming that you used a reliable lye calculator and a reliable scale, and you used a 0 superfat, you should not have zap. You should always run every recipe through a lye calculator, no matter where you got the recipe. Typos happen.
But, assuming that you used a reliable lye calculator and a reliable scale, and you used a 0 superfat, you should not have zap. You should always run every recipe through a lye calculator, no matter where you got the recipe. Typos happen.
hi! my LS soap paste zap so much, when I check with pH strips, it says 14. i think i messed up with my water calculation. any advise? thanks
should I just add more water, or add more oils?
thank you
More water wll not solve this problem. If your soap contains too much alkali, you need to follow Susie's advice about adding more oil.
If you want better advice, post your entire recipe and method. You have not given enough information for us to troubleshoot this problem.
If you want better advice, post your entire recipe and method. You have not given enough information for us to troubleshoot this problem.
Zany_in_CO
Saponifier
Hi @realtami If you add water to the paste to test, it will always turn dark pink in water. Just stick a knife or something similar into the paste. Then add a drop of 1% phenolthalein solution to the bit of soap on the knife. It should be clear. Then watch what happens when you rinse the knife in a glass of water... it turns bright pink!
Go to #12 & #13 on this page to learn how to properly test LS with either phenolphthalein drops or soap-in-water methods.
Is
Hi..
Is this recipe will make your LS thicker? like honey consistency ?
Thanks..
"The numbers" don't relate as well to the properties of liquid soap as they do to bar soap. The cleansing number (% of lauric and myristic acids) is the only one that I think relates to LS. When I want to look in more detail at the properties of a LS recipe, I usually check the fatty acids.
Yes, too much coconut (the % of lauric and myristic acids, to be more correct) can be drying. LS recipes for bathing and hand washing often have a little higher % of coconut than bar soap to get the lather going, but that's not a universal thing, just a tendency. Some people make a 100% coconut liquid soap for laundry or household cleaning -- I think Susie does -- but folks say their hands get pretty dry without gloves.
Another issue with LS is that one squirt contains quite a bit of soap -- much more than you'd get from rubbing a bar of soap. More soap, however mild it may be, means more cleaning power and that can mean dry skin too. And it also means more soap down the drain. One way to control over cleaning and waste is to dilute the soap enough to use it in foamer bottles.
Yes, you can theoretically use any bar soap recipe to make a liquid soap, just recalculate it for KOH. There are reasons why you might not want to, however.
If clarity of the LS is important to you, you need to reduce the % of palmitic and stearic acids in the recipe (lard, tallow, palm, butters) as low as is reasonable. Also avoid fats that have a high % of unsaponifiables -- avocado, jojoba, etc. If clarity isn't a goal, then ignore what I just said.
Castor is often used in a higher % for added clarity. The Irish Lass - Carrie recipe that is pretty popular calls for 10% castor.
Keep the oleic acid around 50% give or take if you want to have a honey thick soap from dilution alone. Too little oleic acid, and the soap will almost always be thin and a separate thickener is required.
Too much oleic acid and you may have to add a lot of water to get a pourable product -- many high oleic soaps like to stay in a jelly form. In that case, the final diluted product may have so little soap in it that it won't perform well.
For your first batch, you really can't go wrong with IL-Carrie recipe. Here's my take on this recipe:
Olive Oil 65% (can substitute part or all of this with any high oleic oil like HO safflower, HO sunflower, avocado, etc.)
Coconut Oil 25%
Castor Bean Oil 10%
Superfat 3% or lower
Lye concentration 25% (water:lye ratio of 3)
Use all KOH as the alkali
If you don't know the KOH purity, choose the 90% pure option if using Soapee or Soapcalc
Can use all water to make the soap or can use up to 2 parts glycerin to 1 part water.
I have used 1:1 glycerin:water, 1:2 glycerin:water, 2:1 glycerin:water, and all water to make this and other LS recipes. They all work.
I do not recommend using the 100% glycerin method for safety's sake.
I recommend using distilled water, not drinking water.
Hi..
Is this recipe will make your LS thicker? like honey consistency ?
Thanks..
