Flashpoint temp marking -> F or C ?

sheilaohga · Jan 23, 2017

Hello,
I recently bought a fragrance oil and there was no indication of the flash point on the online store so I asked them.
They replied back with the answer which was 103 C.
(I bought Arabian white musk FO)

I questioned back if the temp was 103 Fahrenheit and not Celsius but they replied back 100% positive saying that,
"EVERY single flash point that we have from our various manufacturers are ALL in Celsius and those manufacturers are also in the US. I am the product specialist here and I am 100% sure this is correct and is Celsius."

Well, I know I should trust and use the reply I got but now I am very confused.
Do you really note all FOs in US in Celsius and not Fahrenheit?
Almost all Flash Point I looked up were in F so I thought that was the general rule but with the reply I got back, I am truly very confused.

And does anybody know the Flashpoint of a musk FO just so that I can compare?

Thank you.

shunt2011 · Jan 23, 2017

Where are you getting the FO. It really doesn't play a huge part in making soap or other products though they should list it. With HP it's probably a little more important. There are some Musks at Nature's Garden and the one I have states 200F. I've only see F listed on most sites. Though if they ship internationally they may list it otherwise. WSP's Musks run 162-200 and also list F

sheilaohga · Jan 23, 2017

I bought this in Bulk A and I usually HP so yes the temperature does matter.
I just checked NG and thank you for letting me know of this website, they have good selection of FOs.

But while I am on this thread, I want to ask another question, why will the scent not stick?
I put in the FO at around 130F which is way lower than the Flash point (for musk now I know it is 217F) so it should've been ok.
I experimented few batches with 0.5oz PPO ~ 1oz PPO but it did get little bit stronger but still hardly any musk left in the stronger FO batch.
Can I go much over the usually recommended amount (.5oz ppo for HP) to about 2oz ppo and not have skin irritation issues etc?

shunt2011 · Jan 23, 2017

Might want to try a different company. Some fragrances just don't stick. I almost always use 1 oz ppo except really strong ones.

dixiedragon · Jan 23, 2017

As to why won't the scent stick - do you mean it fades in the soap, or do you mean it doesn't stick to the skin when you use the soap?

For the first - Bulk A has some good stuff, but they are not primarily soap people. That FO may be intended and tested to perform in melts, candles, M&P, etc. Just because an FO is skin safe doesn't mean it is a great choice for CP. I have a candle supply place near my and while I love the ability to go sniff things and buy stuff on my lunch break....they are candle folks, not as much soap folks. Their FOs are proving to be VERY hit and miss in CP. Whereas places like Brambleberry, Nurture, etc...they are soap people and their descriptions specifically state if an FO does not hold up in CP. Honestly, I have found BB a bit too conservative in that area...they say their surplus Apple Pie is not CP stable...for me it has been lovely and long-lasting in CP!

You can try some things with that FO - try soaping cooler and don't gel. This may help if it is the heat that is causing the fragrance to morph or fade. Also, try HP. this may help if it is the lye monster causing the problem.

IrishLass · Jan 23, 2017

I agree- some scents just do not do well in lye-based soap. They may be wonderfully fragrant in lotions, M&P, candles, etc, but fall flat or totally fade in CP or HP, regardless of high or low the flash point.

Flash point simply means the temp at which something will combust when exposed to a spark or flame, which is very useful for the shipping industry when issuing Hazmat certificates, but not much when it come to making soap. From what I understand (where soapmaking is concerned), aromatic volatility is the thing that comes into play with scent-fading instead of flashpoint.

To explain, one of my favorite FOs to use is Paradise FO from Daystar. It has a flashpoint of 120F, much lower than your Arabian Musk, but I have soaped it much hotter than its flashpoint before (140F) without any loss of fragrance or fragrance strength in my soap over a period of years, no matter whether I used it at .3 oz ppo or at .75 oz ppo.

In contrast, I have another FO that I love called Crisp Apple Rose from BB, which has a flash point of 200. It fades to practically nothing in my CP in just a few months in spite of when I've used it at its highest recommended usage rate on BB's fragrance calculator, and with a much lower soaping temp (110F). Needless to say, I only use it for perfumes now.

It sure would be nice if there were aromatic volatility ratings listed on FO vendors sites just like they do for flash point and/or vanillin content, etc..., but for now, the best resource we have in regards to knowing whether or not an FO might be a fader or a strong sticker in soap are people's experiences posted on the various FO review sites and/or by word of mouth on the forums. But as Dixie pointed out above^^^, even then, your mileage may vary. lol

Can I go much over the usually recommended amount (.5oz ppo for HP) to about 2oz ppo and not have skin irritation issues etc?

It's best to not go any higher than the stated safe usage rate listed for your particular FO (the safe usage rate can differ greatly from FO to FO). If your supplier does not list the safe usage rate on their site, I would contact them directly and ask.

IrishLass