First time SM disaster: please help

[Bubble&Squeak]

Hi guys,

I made my first batch of home made soap this morning, and it all went horribly wrong. Please figure out what I've done wrong:

I USED THIS RECIPE FOUND HERE: http://down---to---earth.blogspot.com/2 ... mment-form, and following advice from people here I ran it through a lye calculator and changed the quantities to the following as a result:

460g olive oil
600g rice bran oil
440g coconut oil
540ml water
212g lye
Essential oils

I made it according to the method outlined on the website.

All was going well until I added the essential oils at the end. I added lime and peppermint oils. I wasn't stirring too much as I was adding the oils, and the lime went in OK. I put in about half of the peppermint in, and it just started to expand massively, growing out of the pan like some sort of creature from the black lagoon! It was smoking, so I took it outside, where it is still sat.

What did I do wrong? Did I add the wrong amount of oil or perhaps lime essential oil (a citric fruit, therefore slightly acidic) reacted with the alkaline lye?

Please help!

 

[fiddletree]

I don't really know why your soap did this, hopefully someone else might have an answer. The only thing I can think of is that it could be mixing lye water & oils at too high a temperature. Did you do anything else, like introduce ANYTHING made with aluminum (or other non stainless steel metals) to the batch at that point?

In any case, next time you might want to follow other instructions, as some of what that blogger wrote is sketchy at best. It can be dangerous to mix lye & water in anything other than stainless steel (the blogger did in in a pyrex measuring glass.... those can crack/explode), says that experienced soapers don't need protective gear (ack!!! Having read enough horror stories of accidents that experienced soapers have had, I am never *ever* foregoing protective gear), greases a silicone mold (unnecessary), recommends using cast iron (don't know about the safety of it, but it's not easily cleanable. Personally, I use stainless steel everything), and recommends mixing oils at what I think is a excessively high temperature (I wouldn't mix over 40C, personally, and usually mix at 35C). And her soaps have only partially gelled. That's not dangerous in any way, but it's not pretty .

Everyone has their own methods of soapmaking, but this blog is so full of potentially dangerous/questionable info that I would really recommend learning from another resource. I tend to soap on the cautious side, and I know that not everyone is as cautious when soaping, but this seems a bit excessive to me.

 

[Bubble&Squeak]

Thanks for the help, fiddletree.

First up, I am safety geared up to the max - have no worries about that! Secondly, I don't think I introduced anything aluminium/non-stainless steel (I used my hand blender before, but the the blade is stainless steel, and when I think about it, I'm not sure that the shaft is, but surely it must be? I didn't have any issues when actually using it - I was using a wooden spoon by this point). This is the model I was using previously: http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/p ... ENDERS.htm. Now I've looked, apparently it is all steel.

However, I did use a cast iron pan as indicated, given that I realised I didn't have a stainless one around. Maybe that was it, but it all seemed to be going so well - I was right at the end of the recipe, just before pouring into the mould. If it were an issue, would it not be more likely to have reacted before then?

Also, water and lye mixing was done in a big ceramic bowl, and seemed to go very well.

I think I will buy a stainless steel pan. For moderate soap making, what size would you recommend? And do you have another good recipe that you have used and would recommend instead of the one that I was using?

Thanks very much!

 

[fiddletree]

I've never had anything like that happen to me, and have never used cast iron since it has traces of other elements and is hard to clean, so I can't say if that is what caused your soap eruption....anyone else know? If it's not that, try mixing at a lower temp next time. Also, using a wooden spoon can potentially introduce random unwanted things into the soap. Some like using wooden spoons, but I prefer (guess what material?) stainless steel. To get soap out of the pot and into the mold I use a silicone spatula. I don't really trust plastics because many can get easily corroded by raw soap/lye and can potentially offgas and/or melt.

A good resource is www.millersoap.com. You can find good soapmaking techniques, recipes, etc there. When learning, I used Anne Watson's 'Smart Soapmaking', which I loved, although many people use ones Cavitch's books ('Natural Soapmaking' and 'Soapmaker's Companion'...good for techniques, but I'm not crazy about her recipes... personal preferences!).

I use a 7 litre pasta pot for mixing my soap, and use a stick blender. You want it deep enough so that you don't have to worry about soap batter splashing up on you.

 

[Bubble&Squeak]

Thanks for the links and the tips. I think I will invest in a stainless steel pan and silicon spatula and a bowl for mixing water and lye. Can you think of anything else I might need as a beginner?

*Zooms off to read soap making links*

Thanks!

 

[paillo]

interesting about the cast iron possibility for the volcano!

for mixing my lye solutions i use cheap small quart-size paint buckets, leftover chinese food containers or yogurt containers. these all work well and have lids -- i like to make up lye batches ahead of time, refrigerate them and pull out as i'm ready to make batches.

i also like stainless steel spoons and silicone spatulas. and i soap in large plastic paint buckets. they do break down over time, but it takes a lonnngg time in my experience, like close to a year with heavy use. i just replace when i notice signs of wear...

 

[Fragola]

I did have soap overheat once due to essential oils. Since that time, I always mix the EOs with a little oil before adding (but I am not certain this actually helps). Also, alcohol or sugars are supposed to make that. Did your fragrances contain any alcohol by chance (for example, I have a peppermint alcoholic extract).

Except that lime and peppermint aren't supposed to be lye reactive, so that wouldn't make sense either.

From your description, I wouldn't blame the cast iron. I know that certain "cast irons" contain aluminum, but from the steps you followed, looks more like the EOs are the culprit. Probably you could test your cast iron to gain more insight: add few drops of lye and see if it bubbles.

 

[judymoody]

Maybe the glazing on your ceramic bowl was the problem? More likely though, I'd blame possible impurities in the cast iron.

I use mostly HDPE plastic for soaping, including a Rubbermaid plastic lidded pitcher to mix my lye. I set the pitcher in the sink as it cools for extra insurance.

 

[Padamae]

I use an enameled cast iron pan for the past year I have not had an issue. I feel like it heats the oils evenly as I make my soap. I soap at 125 for both lye and oils. I am considering trying soaping at much lower.

 

[Maythorn]

I don't understand the title of this post, what's SM?

 

[Anich]

^Soap making, I guess? I also have major difficulties to understand some of the shortened terms people use here, but I think I'm starting to get a hunch

 

[IrishLass]

I agree with fiddleree, some of the things written in that blog are sketchy at best (and downright dangerous at the other end of the spectrum :shock: ).

I remember you asking about this particular recipe over in the Introductions section and am so glad you changed the recipe, although if it were me, I would drop the lye amount down even a bit more to 208 grams. Your total superfat with 212 grams of lye only comes to 3.5% according to SoapCalc, which is on the lower side of things and may or may not be somewhat drying to the skin depending on your skin-type-- just something to be aware of. On the positive side, though, it's a lot better than a minus zero superfat which is what the actual superfat comes to if you use the recipe on the blog 'as is'. Still- your soap at the 3.5% superfat should come out okay, but remember to check for zap in the finished soap when it's about a week or so old to be sure it's not lye heavy.

As for what caused your volcano, I'm not 100% sure, but my bet is on the cast iron pot. The smoking is what gives it away for me. It's not normal for EOs and lye to react by giving off smoke like that (unless by some weird happenstance there was some kind of metallic impurity in the EO). The volcanoing and smoking are very typical side effects that happen when lye and certain metals meet. I'm so glad you took it outside and let it sit there because when lye and aluminum meet it causes hydrogen gas to form which is very flammable.

Even though the volcano did not happen immediately, don't let that fool you into thinking it could not have been the pot. Depending on how much of the offending metal was in the pot and how easily accessable it was for the lye to get to, the reaction could very well have been delayed, according to those more knowlegable than me on the subject.

I would use good, quality stainless steel, HDPE, or PP #5 plastic bowls or containers to soap in next time. Those are all lye-safe materials.


IrishLass

 

[Maythorn]

^Soap making, I guess? I also have major difficulties to understand some of the shortened terms people use here, but I think I'm starting to get a hunch

Thanks, I thought it was just me in the dark. But I figured the S might be soap,. most likely. Or Soap Monster in this case.

 

[Bubble&Squeak]

Thanks to you all for your advice. It seems that the poor old cast iron pot is getting the blame. I shall purchase a stainless steel one as soon as possible.

I remember you asking about this particular recipe over in the Introductions section and am so glad you changed the recipe, although if it were me, I would drop the lye amount down even a bit more to 208 grams. Your total superfat with 212 grams of lye only comes to 3.5% according to SoapCalc, which is on the lower side of things and may or may not be somewhat drying to the skin depending on your skin-type-- just something to be aware of. On the positive side, though, it's a lot better than a minus zero superfat which is what the actual superfat comes to if you use the recipe on the blog 'as is'. Still- your soap at the 3.5% superfat should come out okay, but remember to check for zap in the finished soap when it's about a week or so old to be sure it's not lye heavy.

I'm afraid to say that the above completely lost me. Where can I learn more about it all, please

Even though the volcano did not happen immediately, don't let that fool you into thinking it could not have been the pot. Depending on how much of the offending metal was in the pot and how easily accessable it was for the lye to get to, the reaction could very well have been delayed, according to those more knowlegable than me on the subject.

I must admit, this was making me wonder. Lesson learnt, I think: stainless steel from now on in!

Oh, and in this case, 'SM' was for 'Soap Making', but I think I like 'Soap Monster' better and it is more appropriate, too!

 

[IrishLass]

Thanks to you all for your advice. It seems that the poor old cast iron pot is getting the blame. I shall purchase a stainless steel one as soon as possible.

I remember you asking about this particular recipe over in the Introductions section and am so glad you changed the recipe, although if it were me, I would drop the lye amount down even a bit more to 208 grams. Your total superfat with 212 grams of lye only comes to 3.5% according to SoapCalc, which is on the lower side of things and may or may not be somewhat drying to the skin depending on your skin-type-- just something to be aware of. On the positive side, though, it's a lot better than a minus zero superfat which is what the actual superfat comes to if you use the recipe on the blog 'as is'. Still- your soap at the 3.5% superfat should come out okay, but remember to check for zap in the finished soap when it's about a week or so old to be sure it's not lye heavy.

I'm afraid to say that the above completely lost me. Where can I learn more about it all, please

Unfortunately, all the pertinent basic '101' stuff is kinda spread all over the forum in different places, so I'll just to try to explain some basic things a little bit off the top of my head to condense in one place :

1. Soap is basically a mixture of water, oils and lye.

2. Each oil has what is known as a SAP number. It's a number that tells you how much lye is generally needed to turn a particular oil into soap. Each oil/fat has its own special/individual SAP.

3.To find out the SAP number for a particular oil, all you need to do is visit any online lye calculator. I use this one here: http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp
It's important to keep in mind that the SAP numbers on lye calculators are only average numbers at best since the actual, exact SAP numbers of any oil/fat can vary slightly from supplier to supplier due to differences in where the oils were sourced, etc.. So what the lye calculators have done is they have taken an average based on all the slight differences they've found within an oil/fat and they use that as its SAP.

4. When one makes soap, it is absolutely crucial to enter your recipe into a lye calculator, which automatically adds up all the SAP numbers for the particular oils in your recipe and then spits out a figure for the proper amount of lye to use for your batch.

5. Since SAPs are based on averages, it is very possible/probable that you will end up with a lye-heavy soap even though all the SAP's were added up properly. That's where a 'superfat' comes in. To ensure that a finished soap will not be lye heavy and/or too drying to one's skin, soapmakers apply what is known as a 'superfat'. When one superfats, they are basically adding less lye to their batch than needed to completely saponify all the oils/fats, which leaves the finished soap with a surplus of unsaponified oil (instead of unreacted lye) which acts as a nice conditioning buffer.

6. How much should one superfat? Most soap calculators recommend starting at a 5% superfat, but some go as low as 3%. SoapCalc (the link I gave you above) sets their Superfat level to a default of 5%, but you can change it if you want to go higher or lower on your superfat by typing in your preferred amount in the superfat box. The recipe you used, as originally written straight from the blog, had a negative superfat- it was less than zero%- very bad. Your revised version comes to a 3.5% superfat on SoapCalc- much better. It brings you out of the danger zone of having a lye-heavy soap, but depending on your skin-type it still may cause a little bit of a drying effect to your skin. You can make it less drying by lowering your lye amount a tad, which will bump up your superfat % (which is what I recommended in my earlier post).

I hope that clears things up a bit. If not- don't be afraid to ask!

IrishLass

 

[Bubble&Squeak]

I remember you asking about this particular recipe over in the Introductions section and am so glad you changed the recipe, although if it were me, I would drop the lye amount down even a bit more to 208 grams. Your total superfat with 212 grams of lye only comes to 3.5% according to SoapCalc, which is on the lower side of things and may or may not be somewhat drying to the skin depending on your skin-type-- just something to be aware of. On the positive side, though, it's a lot better than a minus zero superfat which is what the actual superfat comes to if you use the recipe on the blog 'as is'. Still- your soap at the 3.5% superfat should come out okay, but remember to check for zap in the finished soap when it's about a week or so old to be sure it's not lye heavy.

I'm afraid to say that the above completely lost me. Where can I learn more about it all, please

[/quote]

Unfortunately, all the pertinent basic '101' stuff is kinda spread all over the forum in different places, so I'll just to try to explain some basic things a little bit off the top of my head to condense in one place :

1. Soap is basically a mixture of water, oils and lye.

2. Each oil has what is known as a SAP number. It's a number that tells you how much lye is generally needed to turn a particular oil into soap. Each oil/fat has its own special/individual SAP.

3.To find out the SAP number for a particular oil, all you need to do is visit any online lye calculator. I use this one here: http://www.soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp
It's important to keep in mind that the SAP numbers on lye calculators are only average numbers at best since the actual, exact SAP numbers of any oil/fat can vary slightly from supplier to supplier due to differences in where the oils were sourced, etc.. So what the lye calculators have done is they have taken an average based on all the slight differences they've found within an oil/fat and they use that as its SAP.

4. When one makes soap, it is absolutely crucial to enter your recipe into a lye calculator, which automatically adds up all the SAP numbers for the particular oils in your recipe and then spits out a figure for the proper amount of lye to use for your batch.

5. Since SAPs are based on averages, it is very possible/probable that you will end up with a lye-heavy soap even though all the SAP's were added up properly. That's where a 'superfat' comes in. To ensure that a finished soap will not be lye heavy and/or too drying to one's skin, soapmakers apply what is known as a 'superfat'. When one superfats, they are basically adding less lye to their batch than needed to completely saponify all the oils/fats, which leaves the finished soap with a surplus of unsaponified oil (instead of unreacted lye) which acts as a nice conditioning buffer.

6. How much should one superfat? Most soap calculators recommend starting at a 5% superfat, but some go as low as 3%. SoapCalc (the link I gave you above) sets their Superfat level to a default of 5%, but you can change it if you want to go higher or lower on your superfat by typing in your preferred amount in the superfat box. The recipe you used, as originally written straight from the blog, had a negative superfat- it was less than zero%- very bad. Your revised version comes to a 3.5% superfat on SoapCalc- much better. It brings you out of the danger zone of having a lye-heavy soap, but depending on your skin-type it still may cause a little bit of a drying effect to your skin. You can make it less drying by lowering your lye amount a tad, which will bump up your superfat % (which is what I recommended in my earlier post).

I hope that clears things up a bit. If not- don't be afraid to ask!

IrishLass [/quote]

Thanks for that, IrishLass: it all makes sense. I will figure out what type of recipe I am going to try next, and I will be back with more questions, no doubt!

One more in the meantime, though....where can I find a list of EOs that are lye reactive? I don't want to make that mistake next time! :?

 

[IrishLass]

One more in the meantime, though....where can I find a list of EOs that are lye reactive? I don't want to make that mistake next time! :?

I don't soap with EO's as a rule so I'm not sure if there's a comprehensive list or not lurking around here on the forum somewhere (hopefully someone who knows will chime in), but one thing about EOs that I do know right off the bat is that any EOs with a large amount of eugenol in them, such as cinnamon and clove EO, will cause almost instant seize in soap.

In the meantime, the following site is a great place to check anything fragrance related, whether EO or FO: http://soapscentreview.obisoap.ca/



IrishLass

 

[whiskandbowl]

Wow, negative superfat that's scary. :shock: I had this blog's tutorial linked in my favorites. So glad that (a) I forgot about it and never used it and (b) looked here instead and (c) check every recipe.
I read the comments and it seems like a lot of people are trying her recipe without doing any research Lot's of comments about crumbly soap too.

I'm still learning the science-y side of soapmaking but I will venture a guess that it was the cast iron. You can't/shouldn't use it for cooking acidic ingredients like lemons and tomatoes because it can/will leach an iron-y taste into food...I don't think that's dangerous but if it can leak into food then I suppose it could leak into soap batter too. Just my thoughts.

 

[Bubble&Squeak]

Thanks for the tip, IrishLass. And that's a great forum.

And just to let you know: I am now the proud owner of a stainless steel pan and a bright pink silicon spatula! So here's to no more disasters next time.

*Think aboout what fragrances she wants to put in her soap next time*

Happy soaping, ladies!