First time making liquid soap

[Lorna Baer]

Hi, yesterday I tried my hands at making liquid soap. I thought “I got this” WELL I did not have it. I used sodium hydroxide in stead of potassium hydroxide. and I know better, that’s what’s so frustrating!! Needless to say it’s fatty and there is a separation that is like water but oily?
I’m trying to dissolve it in water to make it more like liquid soap. The fats I scraped off the top turned out wonderful when diluting it with water. I’m hoping the rest will also.
My question is- is this still safe to use on the body. I read that it might be too harsh and is only good for laundry? Also do I need a preservative and at what % if I do?

 

[AliOop]

Ugh, sorry to hear that. Sadly, soap made with sodium hydroxide will not stay dissolved and will always resolidify when left long enough. It will get clumpy and snotty.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you used a recipe that calls for a given weight of KOH, but you weighed out that same amount as NaOH, your soap is extremely lye heavy -- something to the tune of 40% more NaOH than is safe. This large abundance of excess alkali very likely will never cure out. I'd discard it.

I have no idea why you're getting separation ... you didn't share anything about your recipe or method ... so you'll have to figure out that problem on your own.

 

[AliOop]

If you used a recipe that calls for a given weight of KOH, but you weighed out that same amount as NaOH, your soap is extremely lye heavy -- something to the tune of 40% more NaOH than is safe. This large abundance of excess alkali very likely will never cure out. I'd discard it.

I have no idea why you're getting separation ... you didn't share anything about your recipe or method ... so you'll have to figure out that problem on your own.

Thank you for sharing that information, @DeeAnna. In my mind it was the opposite, i.e., the soap would have a lot of extra superfat.

Going forward, I will remember that a given weight of NaOH saponifies more oils than the same given weight of KOH, not less.

 

[Lorna Baer]

I dissolved the batch in 1- 1 ratio of distilled water. It actually turned into a nice golden liquid soap. I put 1% Optiphen Plus in one of the 1lb jars. Yes one of them. Lol! I now have 2 1lb jars of liquid soap. Anyway the one I put the preservative in got a little thick like honey but the other one has a nice Castile Soap consistency. I washed dishes with some without the preservative. It cleaned and rinsed very well and left my hands soft. It still has some foaming ability.
I’m thinking about mixing the 2 jars and have a usage of .5% preservatives. Does anyone know if it will keep?

 

[DeeAnna]

@AliOop -- Yes, 1 gram of NaOH contains the same number of molecules as 1.4 grams of KOH. So a KOH recipe will call for proportionately more weight than the exact same recipe that's calculated for NaOH.

@Lorna Baer -- Optiphen is not rated for the high pH of liquid soap, so it's pretty much useless in this application. Gotta do your homework to find one that you can use -- Which natural preservative is best - we review over 20 -

If you had a recipe calculated for KOH, but used NaOH instead to make the recipe, this soap should be peeling the skin off your hands. It definitely would not be safe for use. Since you're not getting severe skin irritation from this soap, it's obvious I have totally misunderstood what you've done. I'm not sure how I can help you further.

 

[AliOop]

If you had a recipe calculated for KOH, but used NaOH instead to make the recipe, this soap should be peeling the skin off your hands. It definitely would not be safe for use. Since you're not getting severe skin irritation from this soap, it's obvious I have totally misunderstood what you've done.

I am wondering, too, @DeeAnna since there is no way that an NaOH soap would have dissolved so nicely 1:1 with water, OR that it would be safe for hands if she used the same amount of NaOH instead of the designated amount of KOH. No way.

She did mention that she scraped fats "off the top," which I assume means that she left out the oily separated liquid from what she diluted. Perhaps most of the excess NaOH was in that liquid, and perhaps she did not use that? I can't tell from what she wrote.

@Lorna Baer are you positive that you used NaOH? What you are describing - easy dilution, no more separation, and nice on your hands - sounds exactly like you used KOH.

 

[DeeAnna]

@AliOop -- Or the OP used an NaOH recipe but substituted KOH instead. This substitution would make a fat-heavy soap. After dilution, the mixture would separate and it would be possible to scrape the excess fats and fatty acids off the top. The actual soap would be in the bottom layer and I'd expect it to be reasonably decent soap.

But the OP doesn't describe it that way. They said, "...The fats I scraped off the top turned out wonderful when diluting it..." which implies they diluted the top fatty layer, not the bottom soapy layer. Or maybe this is just an awkward sentence, and I interpreted it differently than the author intended.

Dunno. Color me confused.

 

[AliOop]

Ahhhh that would make sense. @Lorna Baer did you mean that you put NaOH in the soap calculator instead of KOH, but you actually used KOH when you made it?

 

[Lorna Baer]

This is the formula I used. I used castor oil instead of rice brand oil.

 

[Lorna Baer]

Please excuse my verbiage. I’m new to making soaps of any kind. I’m not really familiar with all the soapy lingo.
I cooked it high in a crockpot for 2hr then about 4 hours on low. That’s when I realized I used the wrong hydroxide.
I then scraped the fats off the top and cooked the liquids all evening and overnight for almost 13 hour on low.
I poured it in a glass baking dish and it started to solidify. It had the consistency of fat. Like on meat. I then took a quarter of it and put it back the crockpot and added distilled water till it was all dissolved and liquefied like Castile soap. I then poured it into my jars. I did this till I had it all dissolved I did not cover till comply cooled.

 

[AliOop]

Hi Lorna, thanks for clarifying, and no worries! We want to help you, which is why we keep asking more questions.

Liquid soap made with KOH does turn into a thick paste when it is cooked; it can indeed look like the consistency of fat on meat. In contrast, bar soap made with NaOH will keep hardening over time, and will not dissolve in water as you described.

From everything you have shared, I am pretty sure you did actually use KOH, and that you have successfully made liquid soap. But time will tell. If it stays dissolved and doesn't get lumpy, clumpy, snotty, or stringy, you definitely made LS with KOH. Yay!

BTW, Castile soap can be liquid or solid, depending on which type of lye is used to make it. It was pretty clear from the context of what you wrote above that you were referring to liquid Castile soap, not solid bar Castile soap. Just know that it is good to specify which one you mean so people can track with what you are saying.

 

[Lorna Baer]

Hi Lorna, thanks for clarifying, and no worries! We want to help you, which is why we keep asking more questions.

Liquid soap made with KOH does turn into a thick paste when it is cooked; it can indeed look like the consistency of fat on meat. In contrast, bar soap made with NaOH will keep hardening over time, and will not dissolve in water as you described.

From everything you have shared, I am pretty sure you did actually use KOH, and that you have successfully made liquid soap. But time will tell. If it stays dissolved and doesn't get lumpy, clumpy, snotty, or stringy, you definitely made LS with KOH. Yay!

BTW, Castile soap can be liquid or solid, depending on which type of lye is used to make it. It was pretty clear from the context of what you wrote above that you were referring to liquid Castile soap, not solid bar Castile soap. Just know that it is good to specify which one you mean so people can track with what you are saying.

Thank you so much for all your input and help. I will attach a picture of the hydroxide I used.

 

[Lorna Baer]

 

[AliOop]

Hi Lorna,

Honestly, you have me stumped. If you truly used NaOH, there is no way that your soap should have dissolved like it did, or that it would be ok on your skin. Have you zap-tested it? If it is zap-free, at least it won't be harmful to skin. But it may become clumpy or snotty/stringy over time as it tries to resolidify, as NaOH soaps will do when dissolved in water.

Also, when you substituted the castor oil for the rice bran oil, did you run the recipe through a soap calculator? Each oil needs a different amount of lye to saponify, so you can't just switch one oil for another without recalculating the lye. You may already know that, but since you didn't mention it, I thought I'd double-check.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I tried my hands at making liquid soap. I thought “I got this” WELL I did not have it. I used sodium hydroxide in stead of potassium hydroxide. and I know better, that’s what’s so frustrating!!

The Good News is you will probably never make that mistake again!

Needless to say it’s fatty and there is a separation that is like water but oily?

That's a sign that it never fully saponified. If you Hot Processed it you needed to cook it longer.

I’m trying to dissolve it in water to make it more like liquid soap.

That's possible with NaOH soap but you would use 6-8 times the weight of soap. In any case, the result is like @AliOop described. It will indeed revert to solid soap given enough time. (Speaking from first-hand experience! )

The fats I scraped off the top turned out wonderful when diluting it with water.

I reckon that's an initial reaction that won't last. The batch is seriously NaOH heavy and rear it's ugly head as @DeeAnna mentioned.

My question is- is this still safe to use on the body.

Nope.

I read that it might be too harsh and is only good for laundry?

Nope. Not at that level of excess NaOH.

Also do I need a preservative and at what % if I do?

Fully saponified soap (NaOH or KOH) requires no preservative.

I’m thinking about mixing the 2 jars and have a usage of .5% preservatives. Does anyone know if it will keep?

It will keep if you make an adjustment to compensate for the excess NaOH.

I did this till I had it all dissolved I did not cover till comply cooled.

So sorry you went to all that trouble before checking in here.
The only way to correct a batch with excess NaOH mistakenly subbed for KOH is to add enough fatty acids/oils to use up the excess NaOH.

For the benefit of those who may be interested, I'll explain what to do to correct the mistakes.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The Original Recipe looks just fine.
NOTE: - Calculated wtih RBO instead of Castor. Sorry I missed that bit!

Things to note here:
Use KOH and check the 90% box to compensate for KOH being less than pure.
Use the Water to Lye Ratio Box. Type in 3:1
Use 0% SF
Skip Fragrance. It's only added to the diluted amount of LS.

So. We know that 9 ounces of NaOH was used to make the batch.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Here's the same batch made with NaOH

The amount of NaOH needed to saponify the amount of oils in the formula is only 5.75 oz instead of 9 oz.

9 oz - 5.75 oz = 3.25 oz. excess NaOH

 

[Zany_in_CO]

So now we know we need to add enough FAs/Oils to use up the excess NaOH.
To keep it simple, I just upped the coconut and Olive.

9 oz - 5.75 oz = 3.25 oz. excess NaOH

Adding 11 oz Coconut Oil and 10 oz. Olive Oil uses 3.2 oz. NaOH.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

If you dump everything into a large stainless steel pot and hot process it, this is what the final result looks like:

Not bad for an NaOH hard bar batch...
The high Cleansing Value of 23 is offset somewhat with
the high Conditioning Value of 59.

Cure 4-6 weeks or longer.