First Soap Advice

[dixiedragon]

I think it would be difficult without a lid. Your soap will get dry and the heat won't be able to build up. But you could put a pot lid on top and that would help.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Don't try using aluminum foil as a cover. Maybe a plate, or a lid from another of your stock pots?

 

[Parfumerie]

Ok thanks going shopping now I should be able to find something at the thrift store hopefully

 

[BrewerGeorge]

BTW, hot process is NOT a shorter curing stage - no matter what you may have read elsewhere.

 

[Parfumerie]

Oh really I've read that a lot of places, any idea why the misconception if it is one

 

[Desederata]

Another important thing with HP, is that you can decide what is going to be soap and what is going to be superfat. I follow some HP-soapmakers on Youtube, and it seems like that is the most important reason behind them doing hot process instead of cold process. They make soap of cheap fats and use the expensive butters as superfat, for example.

I have also read that castile soaps gets better done HP than CP. But I have no clue if that is the case or not.

Another reason, apart from accelerating fragrances, is that they don't run the risk of their scents morphing or fading because they are eaten by lye. I understand that they can use citrus essential oils in HP as well, which will disappear in cold process. But I'm not too sure of that, I might have mixed things up. They also don't have to worry about trace, they just stickblend everything to thick trace and that's it. Partial gel does not exist in HP. No soda ash either. But of course there are problems with HP that those doing CP don't have, like that the soap suddenly can volcano out of the crock and end up all over the countertop + the floor. It can start to solidify before you have got it into the mold (I have experienced that).

How much work HP is depends on their method of making HP. Stickblender hot process (SBHP)/countertop hot prosess is very fast. I have done it myself, and it became quite a lot of work because I messed it up, did not have the right equipment etc, etc. But for me the problems started after saponification. But going from oils and lye to soap, that went as fast as a lightening! For those who are experienced enough to know what to do and what not, and actually can follow recipes without experimenting with everything, they can make HP in a hurry. I of course messed everything up with my experimental methods, that I have learned is not too clever to start with for an absolute beginner in soapmaking.

I think there are many reasons to do HP. I'm not sure though if I will do it again soon, since I now have a recipe I like (I just have to boost the bubbles a bit and it is close to perfection), and that recipe does not have a particular oil going to superfat or anything. I will see when my fragrance oils arrives from Australia, if some of them requires HP, if not, I will make my recipe CP. But I do like HP, it is quite fun when the volcano action starts. I think I have done 3 HP soaps, and two of them ended in the garbage. One was a milk soap, and I had no clue then that the horrible ammonia smell is normal, so it ended up in the trash as a total failure, even if it most likely was just fine. I have not tried the slow HP method, cooking in a crockpot for hours. That seems totally boring and absolutely unnecessary, since it just is to warm the oils to a higher temperature to begin with, dump in hot lye and your HP soap will be done in almost an instant. I don't see any point in doing slow HP, watching over a crockpot for hours when HP really does not take that long at all. If you have 10-20 soaps to make at once (like Essential Soaps on Youtube), well, then it makes sense to use the slow HP method. The fast method would be almost impossible for more than 1 soap at a time.

I made some really nice lemon CP soap recently and used three different EOs. It smelled great but now there isn't a trace of scent left. Why don't the citrus oils hold their scent? Maybe I didn't use enough?

 

[Desederata]

Experience will matter for both methods, of course, but I still feel that CP is slightly easier/faster. It's easy to make a false equivalence between the two methods by not choosing similar finished products. The vast majority of HP soap is going to be a single color with no decoration, whereas I suspect it's pretty rare that many CP soaps are made without at least an ITP swirl - and many are more complicated still. It's easy to compare that basic HP soap that just takes a few minutes to a CP design with several more process steps.

FWIW, I can have a single-color CP soap in the mold in 20 minutes or less using prebatched lye solution. Getting everything ready and putting it away afterward takes longer than the soaping process itself. I don't usually do that, but I can. Conversely there are advanced HP processes that allow multiple colors, swirls and the like, but they are more rarely performed (I think) and take more time and effort.

So while it is probably fair to say that the most common methodology of HP is faster/easier than the most common methodology of CP, the truth is that they both have a wide range of functional processes that are probably pretty close to the same thing. After all, they're both performing the same chemical process on the same basic components. My preference for CP could easily be down to greater experience with it.

You might also consider that the idea that HP soapers can "choose" their superfat is somewhat controversial. It's conventional wisdom, for sure. In fact, I'd say it's probably universally considered truth among more casual soapers. But the actual truth is ... murkier than that. I'm not well-versed enough on the science to attempt to explain it. Perhaps someone better *cough*DeeAnna*cough* will try.

I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?

 

[shunt2011]

I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?

Not the OP but no. Many of us master batch our lye as well as our oils. I make a large batch of lye 50/50 mix and store it until ready to make soap. I measure out the required amount of lye mixture and the add the needed water/milk to bring it up to the total amount needed per the soap calculator for my batch. It will warm up some but not get as hot as fresh lye mixture. I master batch my oils as well and then just heat them until clear and then I'm ready to go.

 

[shunt2011]

I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?

Not the OP but no. Many of us master batch our lye as well as our oils. I make a large batch of lye 50/50 mix and store it until ready to make soap. I measure out the required amount of lye mixture and the add the needed water/milk to bring it up to the total amount needed per the soap calculator for my batch. It will warm up some but not get as hot as fresh lye mixture. I master batch my oils as well and then just heat them until clear and then I'm ready to go.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Oh really I've read that a lot of places, any idea why the misconception if it is one

It's a misunderstanding of the difference between "safe" and "cured."

HP soap is (should be) fully saponified into soap before you pour it into molds. Assuming a good recipe there will be no excess lye and it will pass zap test immediately. It's "safe" to cut and use as soon as it hardens. In fact you can wash with it before it even hardens, like using the residue in the pot to clean the pot - without gloves. But it's FAR from the best soap it can be at that point.

CP soap, though, is poured at varying degrees of trace and finishes saponification over the next few hours to few days. Trying to wash THAT pot immediately (use gloves!) will be an oily mess of unreacted oil and excess lye. Depending on recipe and process, it may still be zapping and soft two days later. But it WILL finish shortly and harden enough to be cut. At that point it will be just as safe as the HP was immediately. However, the CP soap is ALSO not yet ready at its best.

I'm talking qualitative characteristics like bubbles, longevity, creaminess, etc. Give it a month to cure and it will be very noticeably better. After two months there will be a night-and-day difference. A year and an uniformed stranger would not believe they are the same recipe. Curing does all kinds of things to make better soap, and there is no way to rush it (outside of a factory). HP might give you a very few days head start, but that's not relevant in the context of a two month default cure time. Besides, HP soap often uses more water which slows down its rate of cure enough to obviate those few days head start at the beginning.

Not that you shouldn't make HP soap. Just be aware that it still needs to cure just like CP to be its best.

 

[cmzaha]

So I think I'm gonna do hot process later today to force the gel and shorter curing stage, can you do it in a crockpot without the lid, a friend gave me one but didnt have one and if I don't have to buy a new one that would be great

Nothing shortens "Cure" time, the key here is the word Cure not drying time. Actually hp does not shorten drying time either since if usually contains more liquid.

 

[Parfumerie]

I made some really nice lemon CP soap recently and used three different EOs. It smelled great but now there isn't a trace of scent left. Why don't the citrus oils hold their scent? Maybe I didn't use enough?

Most fragrance notes like in a perfume for example are accords built from multiple ingredients (eo's, absolutes, co2 extractions and aromachemicals), citrus oils are considered top notes because you smell them at the opening of a (French style) fragrance and they are gone shortly after because they evaporate the quickest there are some aromachemicals that smell like citrus and last but I don't know how they would perform in a soap check out White Lotus Aromatics & Perfumer's apprentice if you're interested, I think from my understanding of flashpoint if they're not being flashed by heat and you're using an adequate volume then that's why.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I have a question. You mentioned using pre-batch lye. How do you heat this mixture before using? Doesn't it have to be warm to mix with the oils in CP soap making? Can you put it in the microwave. The reason I ask this is because when making my last batch I heated my oils way too much and had to wait a long time for them to cool down. I was getting in a panic because my lye mixture was cooling down too. They're supposed to be within ten degrees of each other before mixing right?

I somehow missed this question earlier, sorry...

50/50 lye solution warms up naturally when you add the rest of the water before mixing everything. - like shunt said. Not nearly as much as mixing powdered lye, but just the right amount.

At the risk of opening another tangent, having the temps close isn't as important as you may have been lead to believe. (See the thread going on now about using just-dissolved, hot lye to melt hard oils.) IDK where the 10 degree difference thing came from, but I'd guess it is an attempt to mitigate the non-instinctual enthalpy (heat capacity) of both oils and dense lye solutions to make it easier to hit a target temperature after they're mixed.

 

[RobynB]

Plastic wrap works great on a crock with no lid

 

[Parfumerie]

How do you decide the water to lye ratio

 

[BrewerGeorge]

How do you decide the water to lye ratio

Water ratio is one of the several variables that influence things like how fast a mix traces and how it gels (or if it does). Things like temperature and oil recipe are the other variables.

Someone else will be a better choice to help with the water question. I personally chose 33% lye solution (thats a 2:1 water:lye ratio) and never vary it. The 33% is an easy and (mostly) fool-proof process for pre-batched lye, and never varying it gives me a set expectation for behavior as I vary the other factors to achieve the desired result. For example, if I want to slow trace for more working time I will change recipe and lower temps. Others might change water ratios and temp but leave recipe alone. Many will do all the above. You have to experiment and let experience tell you what works well for you.

 

[jcandleattic]

. Nevermind I thought I was posting to the most recent reply, but it was in the middle of page 1.

 

[Parfumerie]

Alright so I'm off and soaping!

I adjusted my recipe after a little more looking around and wound up going with:

14oz. each of
Palm Oil
Coconut Oil
Olive Oil (extra virgin)

1.9oz.
Castor Oil

3.5oz Cocoa Butter

33% for the lye:
Water
15.43oz.
NaOH
6.84oz.

I guess I'm gonna go cp and put it in the fridge to prevent the gel phase, just letting the lye and oils cool now before I blend!

 

[Holly8991]

I like to HP. I put a seran type wrap across the top called Stretch Tight. I just get it at Publix but they probably carry it in most grocery stores. It a heavier version of cling wrap and it holds great without melting on your crockpot. The best benefit is that you can use your digital thermometer thought it and also see through it better than a lid.

 

[Wilda Gallagher]

So I think I'm gonna do hot process later today to force the gel and shorter curing stage, can you do it in a crockpot without the lid, a friend gave me one but didnt have one and if I don't have to buy a new one that would be great

You can use plastic wrap to keep the moisture in.