First GM Salt Bar Recipe feedback request

[AxtFarm]

Looking for feedback on if this recipe would make a good bar from some experienced salt bar makers along with tips on how to do it properly.

My plan:
500g Oil Recipe 5 (Salt Bars)
Frozen Milk+Lye+SL+Sorbitol Melted to 70-75°
Oils melted together to around 100-120°
Add KC/water mixture to oils
Mix to light trace then split into two bowls
Dark Blue Mica w/oil into one bowl & mix
Light Blue Mica w/oil into the other bowl & mix
Add 0.5oz Fragrance split between the two bowls
Mix in 125g of Sea Salt into each of the bowls
Pour Dark mixture back into the light-colored mixture and lightly swirl
Pour into 6 individual silicone molds

I'm not real sure if this order is correct and based on what I have read once I add the salt things will have to go fast.

 

[Obsidian]

Thats not a proper salt bar recipe. Try 80% coconut, 20% olive, sf 20% with 175 grams salt.

Use a very well behaved FO. I would add it before separating the batter, I would also increase it to a full ounce.
Salt bars don't always hold scent well, the long cure doesn't help either.

Honestly, I would go with a single color your first time. Salt bars can go from everything is perfectly ok to shoving cement into a mold exceptionally fast.

 

[Tara_H]

I think you said yesterday that you haven't actually made any batches of soap yet? It's usually recommended to start with a very simple recipe just to get a feel for the process before you start branching out into more advanced concepts.

 

[AxtFarm]

I think you said yesterday that you haven't actually made any batches of soap yet? It's usually recommended to start with a very simple recipe just to get a feel for the process before you start branching out into more advanced concepts.

That is correct, it will be my 5th batch. I'm starting from simple to and getting progressively more difficult with each batch.

 

[AxtFarm]

Thats not a proper salt bar recipe. Try 80% coconut, 20% olive, sf 20% with 175 grams salt.

Use a very well behaved FO. I would add it before separating the batter, I would also increase it to a full ounce.
Salt bars don't always hold scent well, the long cure doesn't help either.

Honestly, I would go with a single color your first time. Salt bars can go from everything is perfectly ok to shoving cement into a mold exceptionally fast.

I read that salt bars use anywhere from 50%-100% of total oil weight so to confirm, you are recommending I use 35% salt?

I purchased Ocean Water FO for it which says it accelerates trace slightly.

When creating the salt bar recipe I was going for something different, more of a hybrid salt bar. I'm curious as to what the importance of staying within standard salt bar specs are? For example will it not cure, will it not accomplish what a salt bar is supposed to accomplish, will it not meet expectations of salt bar users, are salt bar users more of a purist thing that expect the bar to be pretty similar between sellers?

 

[artemis]

1. I read that salt bars use anywhere from 50%-100% of total oil weight so to confirm, you are recommending I use 35% salt?

2. I purchased Ocean Water FO for it which says it accelerates trace slightly.

3. I'm curious as to what the importance of staying within standard salt bar specs are?

1. That's a personal preference issue. Some people go lower, some higher in their salt percentages.

2. Avoid accelerating anything, especially if you're trying anything fancy. The salt and CO will move pretty fast on their own. In fact, for a first salt bar, I'd recommend cavity or individual molds instead of a loaf. I do a loaf sometimes, but you have to cut it at just the right time.

3. The salt interferes with lather. That's why salts bars are high CO, to compensate. Mine are 80% CO, 20 avocado oil.

I would suggest making a small batch of a traditional salt bar recipe just so you can see the starting point. And then experiment with amounts and other oils.

 

[AxtFarm]

1. That's a personal preference issue. Some people go lower, some higher in their salt percentages.

2. Avoid accelerating anything, especially if you're trying anything fancy. The salt and CO will move pretty fast on their own. In fact, for a first salt bar, I'd recommend cavity or individual molds instead of a loaf. I do a loaf sometimes, but you have to cut it at just the right time.

3. The salt interferes with lather. That's why salts bars are high CO, to compensate. Mine are 80% CO, 20 avocado oil.

I would suggest making a small batch of a traditional salt bar recipe just so you can see the starting point. And then experiment with amounts and other oils.

2. I'm starting with individual bar molds for my small batches

3. That makes sense

 

[AxtFarm]

Use a very well behaved FO. I would add it before separating the batter, I would also increase it to a full ounce.
Salt bars don't always hold scent well, the long cure doesn't help either.

1oz of FO for 500g of oil puts the Fragrance at 50 according to the calculator

 

[TheGecko]

As someone who has made a lot of GMS, what is your reasoning for adding Sorbitol? Milk already contains a LOT of natural sugars, it's why it's so easy to burn and overheat. IMHO, you're just asking for trouble.

Now I understand that you're impatient to make soap and to find that one recipe to rule them all, but I really urge you to follow the KISS rule.

 

[cmzaha]

Obsidian is correct in her recommendations. I started making salt bars when they first started becoming popular about 11 yrs ago. I happen to always use 100% salt PPO in my bars very seldom less. My recipe is 80% CO, or CO/PKO split, 10% Castor, 5% SAO or Sunflower HO. I do add in Sorbitol at 1.1% and Fragrance at the ratio of 8-9% PPO, depending on my FO, Salt bars eat FO.

Butters and Palm oil in Salt bars will kill lather, trust me on this. Over the years I have probably made every mistake and tried everything in a salt bar and GM will do nothing for the bar, only a very long cure will mellow a salt bar. Also, remember to use X fine to Fine Sea Salt nothing heavier. Non-iodized table salt 50:50 with Pacific Sea Salt works great. I also recommend staying away from store-bought bulk sea salt, I have run into problems with it being very prickly, Never never grind sea salt.

As for FO's almost all ocean and water type FO's will accelerate so I would go with a single color salt bar especially if pouring in a cavity mold.

Salt bars take 6-12 months to cure and 2-5 years produces a primo salt bar.

 

[Obsidian]

I read that salt bars use anywhere from 50%-100% of total oil weight so to confirm, you are recommending I use 35% salt?

I purchased Ocean Water FO for it which says it accelerates trace slightly.

When creating the salt bar recipe I was going for something different, more of a hybrid salt bar. I'm curious as to what the importance of staying within standard salt bar specs are? For example will it not cure, will it not accomplish what a salt bar is supposed to accomplish, will it not meet expectations of salt bar users, are salt bar users more of a purist thing that expect the bar to be pretty similar between sellers?

Yes, I use 35% salt. I like the lather and its easier to work with.

 

[AxtFarm]

Obsidian is correct in her recommendations. I started making salt bars when they first started becoming popular about 11 yrs ago. I happen to always use 100% salt PPO in my bars very seldom less. My recipe is 80% CO, or CO/PKO split, 10% Castor, 5% SAO or Sunflower HO. I do add in Sorbitol at 1.1% and Fragrance at the ratio of 8-9% PPO, depending on my FO, Salt bars eat FO.

Butters and Palm oil in Salt bars will kill lather, trust me on this. Over the years I have probably made every mistake and tried everything in a salt bar and GM will do nothing for the bar, only a very long cure will mellow a salt bar. Also, remember to use X fine to Fine Sea Salt nothing heavier. Non-iodized table salt 50:50 with Pacific Sea Salt works great. I also recommend staying away from store-bought bulk sea salt, I have run into problems with it being very prickly, Never never grind sea salt.

As for FO's almost all ocean and water type FO's will accelerate so I would go with a single color salt bar especially if pouring in a cavity mold.

Salt bars take 6-12 months to cure and 2-5 years produces a primo salt bar.

It's been suggested by another in the forum in regards to GMS recipes and in atleast one of Ellen's videos I've watched she used cane sugar in her GMS.

I'm just trying to soak in information from various sources.

 

[AxtFarm]

Obsidian is correct in her recommendations. I started making salt bars when they first started becoming popular about 11 yrs ago. I happen to always use 100% salt PPO in my bars very seldom less. My recipe is 80% CO, or CO/PKO split, 10% Castor, 5% SAO or Sunflower HO. I do add in Sorbitol at 1.1% and Fragrance at the ratio of 8-9% PPO, depending on my FO, Salt bars eat FO.

Butters and Palm oil in Salt bars will kill lather, trust me on this. Over the years I have probably made every mistake and tried everything in a salt bar and GM will do nothing for the bar, only a very long cure will mellow a salt bar. Also, remember to use X fine to Fine Sea Salt nothing heavier. Non-iodized table salt 50:50 with Pacific Sea Salt works great. I also recommend staying away from store-bought bulk sea salt, I have run into problems with it being very prickly, Never never grind sea salt.

As for FO's almost all ocean and water type FO's will accelerate so I would go with a single color salt bar especially if pouring in a cavity mold.

Salt bars take 6-12 months to cure and 2-5 years produces a primo salt bar.

goats milk useless in salt bars
6+ months to cure
Extra FO
100% salt
....that's just seems like too much to even pursue since my business is selling GMS.


What is your purpose for going through that?
Are you able to get better roi because less people sell them?

 

[AliOop]

@AxtFarm I appreciate that you are getting so much info from so many sources, and doing your best to take it in and make a good plan for yourself. This measured approach to learning how to make soap, and eventually sell it, is so wise!

There's nothing wrong with mapping things out like you are, as long as you are willing to assess as you go, and change directions if necessary. You want to try GM in a salt bar? Great, give it a go. With the long cure required, you may decide it isn't worth it to add the GM - or it may become your favorite bar. Or more importantly, your customers' favorite bar.

What I think some of the others may be getting at, is that it's probably wise to make a few basic batches now, before seeking more advice on future batches that are planned for down the road. Your perspective is likely to change after you've made the first ones.

I don't say that to criticize at all, so hopefully it doesn't sound that way. It's just that soapmaking is such an interesting hobby/sport/obsession/business, or whatever it ends up being in your life. One of the constants is that the soap rarely turns out exactly as planned. For that reason, getting experience with basic recipes (limited ingredients) is truly the best way to start.

Are there exceptional folks who waltz in and start swirling away, making fantastic soap from the start? Yes, but they often come to the table with existing skills, experiences, and talents that transfer over well. The remaining great majority of us have to put in a fair amount of time and effort to get there. From your thoughtful approach, I have no doubt you will be one of those people. That's assuming you like making soap and decide to continue. There are a few weirdos unusual people who don't.

 

[TheGecko]

It's been suggested by another in the forum in regards to GMS recipes and in atleast one of Ellen's videos I've watched she used cane sugar in her GMS.

Ellen makes a lot of different kinds of soaps, not just GMS which is why you have to watch carefully. Sometimes she will do a 100% GMS and all she adds to her GM Lye Solution is Sodium Lactate. Sometimes she does a 50/50 Lye Solution when she adds her GM straight into her oils, sometimes she will mix with other liquids like GM and Coffee, or GM and Aloe Vera. While it's possible since she had produced over 200 video, I have never seen her add cane sugar to any GM Lye Solution.

And if someone has suggested adding sugar to your GM Lye Solution, I would want to know the exact process and what their GMS looks like. To be honest, if you're going to add colorants to your GMS, it's not going to matter if your natural GMS has a tan color. I don't add any colorants to my GMS (unless I'm testing a new FO by different companies and need to make sure which is which) so I am very careful.

I'm just trying to soak in information from various sources.

Are you? I'm only asking because it seems that the only information that you are soaking in is what supports what it is that you want to do. Understand, there is plenty of soap to go around...where you are just wanting to make soap for family and friends as a hobby, or you want to get into the business of selling soap, nobody is going to try and stop you.

With regards to the business end of soap making...have you written a business plan? If you haven't, then you really need to sit down and write out a 5-year Plan, because the odds are very, very good that that is how long it is going to take before everything is paid for and you're operating in the red. Just to give you a small idea of how expensive it can be...I have easily spent close to $4000 since I started two years ago...that's for Oils, Butters, Sodium Hydroxide, Water, Goat Milk, Colorants, Scents, Misc, Packaging, Equipment and Molds. There has been quite a bit of R&D (research and development)...not just in developing three recipes (regular, goat milk, mechanics), bath salts and lotion bars, but in testing colorants, scents and packaging. Not included in the $4,000 is Business Registration, Insurance, Business Cards, Labels, Domain Name, Websites (still haven't found a set up that I like)...easily another $1000.

My ROI is pretty much zero...mostly because of the pandemic, some of it has been my day job (I'm an accountant by the way). I haven't made much soap this year, been under a crap load of stress both personal and professional. I do have a wholesale account and I sell to friends and family (at cost). So I'm not quite at square one, but I'm a good year and half behind where I thought I would be.

 

[AAShillito]

So the important thing I can tell you from having made 5 oops batches of salt bars in 3 months ( keep tweaking and learning) is as soon as you add the salt have the molds right there to glop it into. There is no time at that point for leisure.

 

[AAShillito]

Ellen makes a lot of different kinds of soaps, not just GMS which is why you have to watch carefully. Sometimes she will do a 100% GMS and all she adds to her GM Lye Solution is Sodium Lactate. Sometimes she does a 50/50 Lye Solution when she adds her GM straight into her oils, sometimes she will mix with other liquids like GM and Coffee, or GM and Aloe Vera. While it's possible since she had produced over 200 video, I have never seen her add cane sugar to any GM Lye Solution.

And if someone has suggested adding sugar to your GM Lye Solution, I would want to know the exact process and what their GMS looks like. To be honest, if you're going to add colorants to your GMS, it's not going to matter if your natural GMS has a tan color. I don't add any colorants to my GMS (unless I'm testing a new FO by different companies and need to make sure which is which) so I am very careful.



Are you? I'm only asking because it seems that the only information that you are soaking in is what supports what it is that you want to do. Understand, there is plenty of soap to go around...where you are just wanting to make soap for family and friends as a hobby, or you want to get into the business of selling soap, nobody is going to try and stop you.

With regards to the business end of soap making...have you written a business plan? If you haven't, then you really need to sit down and write out a 5-year Plan, because the odds are very, very good that that is how long it is going to take before everything is paid for and you're operating in the red. Just to give you a small idea of how expensive it can be...I have easily spent close to $4000 since I started two years ago...that's for Oils, Butters, Sodium Hydroxide, Water, Goat Milk, Colorants, Scents, Misc, Packaging, Equipment and Molds. There has been quite a bit of R&D (research and development)...not just in developing three recipes (regular, goat milk, mechanics), bath salts and lotion bars, but in testing colorants, scents and packaging. Not included in the $4,000 is Business Registration, Insurance, Business Cards, Labels, Domain Name, Websites (still haven't found a set up that I like)...easily another $1000.

My ROI is pretty much zero...mostly because of the pandemic, some of it has been my day job (I'm an accountant by the way). I haven't made much soap this year, been under a crap load of stress both personal and professional. I do have a wholesale account and I sell to friends and family (at cost). So I'm not quite at square one, but I'm a good year and half behind where I thought I would be.

I feel for you. I work FT, have a high-schooler, spouse, house full of pets, and all I want to do is spend more money on soap stuff and watch my chickens and new rescue turkey. And since I started in March learning soapmaking I've probably spent 1000.00 bucks just getting everything I need and replenishing stuff after bad batches. I just sent some 6 week samples all labelled with ingredients to my friends and hoping it will generate sales in a few months. So maybe I can pay for more supplies. Picture of Sir Gobbles for the cuteness.

 

[AxtFarm]

Ellen makes a lot of different kinds of soaps, not just GMS which is why you have to watch carefully. Sometimes she will do a 100% GMS and all she adds to her GM Lye Solution is Sodium Lactate. Sometimes she does a 50/50 Lye Solution when she adds her GM straight into her oils, sometimes she will mix with other liquids like GM and Coffee, or GM and Aloe Vera. While it's possible since she had produced over 200 video, I have never seen her add cane sugar to any GM Lye Solution.

And if someone has suggested adding sugar to your GM Lye Solution, I would want to know the exact process and what their GMS looks like. To be honest, if you're going to add colorants to your GMS, it's not going to matter if your natural GMS has a tan color. I don't add any colorants to my GMS (unless I'm testing a new FO by different companies and need to make sure which is which) so I am very careful.



Are you? I'm only asking because it seems that the only information that you are soaking in is what supports what it is that you want to do. Understand, there is plenty of soap to go around...where you are just wanting to make soap for family and friends as a hobby, or you want to get into the business of selling soap, nobody is going to try and stop you.

With regards to the business end of soap making...have you written a business plan? If you haven't, then you really need to sit down and write out a 5-year Plan, because the odds are very, very good that that is how long it is going to take before everything is paid for and you're operating in the red. Just to give you a small idea of how expensive it can be...I have easily spent close to $4000 since I started two years ago...that's for Oils, Butters, Sodium Hydroxide, Water, Goat Milk, Colorants, Scents, Misc, Packaging, Equipment and Molds. There has been quite a bit of R&D (research and development)...not just in developing three recipes (regular, goat milk, mechanics), bath salts and lotion bars, but in testing colorants, scents and packaging. Not included in the $4,000 is Business Registration, Insurance, Business Cards, Labels, Domain Name, Websites (still haven't found a set up that I like)...easily another $1000.

My ROI is pretty much zero...mostly because of the pandemic, some of it has been my day job (I'm an accountant by the way). I haven't made much soap this year, been under a crap load of stress both personal and professional. I do have a wholesale account and I sell to friends and family (at cost). So I'm not quite at square one, but I'm a good year and half behind where I thought I would be.

In the video I'm referring to it wasn't frozen milk with lye like I'm doing, but 50% water in lye and 50% milk in oils.




I understand what you are saying I disagree with you. I could just Google some stuff, watch a few videos and go for it. I joined a forum for a reason and it wasn't to have random people cheer me on. Honestly, that doesn't matter. I just want to hear what has worked and hasn't worked from others so I can try to avoid those things as well as learn about all the little tips and tricks such as Tussah Silk, KC, SL, starting with small test batches, and try water first.

I have written a 3 year business plan per my accountants requirements so I could claim my farm as a business.

Breeding is main source of income
Milk soap secondary
Raw Milk as third

I just need the net to outweigh the expenses every 3 out of 5 years starting year three and I'm good because it's claimable as a business rather than being a hobby farm.

If soap can't supplement the income enough more emphasis goes into raw milk which has a cost of 0, but overall is more time/work with terrible returns for time spent.

We want the product to be good, I want to hear advice from pro's, I want good roi, and I want to be in the red by atleast $1 by the end of the year starting at year 3 (we have been doing this for less than 12 months).

As I'm sure you have picked up this is not my primary source of income. I work and run my own business and my wife runs the farm. After talking to my accountant about claiming the goat farm as a business and finding out about changes over the last several years that keeps the farm expenses from being able to be an automatic tax write-off my wife and I discussed if we wanted her farm to be a taxable burden or if she wanted it to be a business and if she wanted to put in the work for it to pass the IRS requirements to be considered a business. She told me if the tax loss from claiming income on the goat sales would be under 1k she was ok with eating it, but if it was more than we might as well give it the 3 years and if it fails to meet their requirements by that point then we start eating the tax hits then. I told her that wasn't going to happen and I would put her in a position to be profitable and teach her the soap aspect once I figured it out...so here I am doing what I do...be successful.

I was going to keep the above private because amongst a group passionate professionals I am now immediately looked at as an outsider that doesn't "fit the mold", but something in your post stirred up some fire in me

 

[AliOop]

@AxtFarm thank you for sharing all that info! I'm sorry you feel "looked on as an outsider" - and I will say that I think you are mistaken in that.

Yes, the majority of us here on SMF are passionate soap makers. But many (if not most) of us are not professional soap makers. All of us are just regular folks who enjoy making soap. Some of us work hard to perfect some aspect of craft, while others of us want simple enjoyment and don't stress over details.

Many of us are pretty outspoken, to the point of blunt, at times. Unfortunately, our goodwill doesn't shine through online like it would in person. Context and subcontext are difficult in this setting, and things often get misconstrued.

Don't get discouraged or feel picked on. We are truly a friendly group and will go above and beyond to help people who are starting out. Unfortunately, some of the advice may be contradictory, or you may decide to try things your own way. That's ok! I hope you and the wife will start making soap soon, and that you will share pics (failures and successes) along the way. No doubt I speak for all of us when I wish you the best in reaching the break-even point sooner than you could ever hope.

PS - there are some soapmaking-specific business courses that could also be of some help: check out the Lovin' Soap website, and the Modern Soapmaking website. The courses aren't cheap, and aren't for everyone, but I've heard good things about both of them.

 

[AAShillito]

TBH one of the first things I did when I started learning in March was to recruit a bunch of friends to be my honest testers. I just sent out samples. You may think your soap is good but you need brutal honesty and it's better to come from friends and not angry customers. Like issues with scent, DOS, not bubbly enough. I have 23 people spread out all over the US. One good thing I can thank Facebook for.