first coconut shea attempt

[Emilee]

so, i usually do gm cp soap, but decided this one would just have coconut cream instead of the gm. i don't use fragrance oils, and just want the scent of the coconut oil to come through

wasn't sure what exactly to put in it, but used 32 oz coconut oil, 12 oz shea butter and 8 oz castor, making a 3 p 4 oz batch, at 15% superfat.

i usually just whip my oils, and then add the lye/aloe mix which is at 40 degrees, then add my other liquids.

so i did this one the same, whipped the oils above, but my lye was only about 36 degrees and i decided I'd just soap anyway.

traced very quickly after adding lye/aloe, and then the coconut cream. i poured it out into the mold, but noticed little lumps of coconut oil that didn't seem to have melted.

I couldn't see them in the creamy mixture before adding lye.

I assumed it was because my lye wasn't hot enough to melt all the oils, and not wanting to rebatch becuase its boring and time consuming, i thought i'd try putting the already hard soap back into the pot, adding some more coconut cream, beating/whipping again to see if it would get the coconut oil lumps out.

mixture turned to cottage cheese style, and gave off a very foul smelling odor. decided to give up, pour out and leave it.

next day, no odor, just smells like coconut again, but i can still see the lumps about 1/2 cm size.

questions.

1. I'm assuming I'll need to rebatch, as the lumps of coconut oil won't saponify. I don't know what will happen to the soap if there is lumps of coconut oil in it. anyone know?

2. If i rebatch, i'll probably add more shea and maybe castor. Can you add more lye in a rebatch as well? my rebatched soap always seems to turn out too soft, and I thought if i could add more lye, it might help? I rebatch in the crock pot.

3. In the above recipe, I also tried pureeing some fresh coconut with my coconut cream, but the fresh coconut just chopped up very finely, and didn't exactly puree. worried that the lye wouldn't saponify it properly, I sieved it out of the mix, and just used the cream. question is has anyone used fresh coconut in a bar like this, and even tho the coconut is just chopped finely, and the lye probably can't mix with it all the way through, did the soap turn out fine?

 

[Lindy]

When you're rebatching a fresh soap don't add any more liqiud to it or you end up with soggy/soft soap which takes forever to cure. I haven't done the CP method - I tend to use the oven if I'm not whipping the soap or the microwave if I am. Since you don't know how much oil hasn't saponified I would strongly recommend that you don't add any more lye.... HTH

 

[IrishLass]

My gut feeling is telling me that it's not solidified coconut oil that I am looking at in your soap, but solidified shea butter instead. Shea butter is high in stearic acid, which has a nasty habit of re-solidifying in soap batter if you soap too cool. I always soap my batches that contain butters/fats that have higher stearic acid percentages at 120 degreesF (48.8 degreesC) (both lye and oils) to make sure the stearic stays liquid throughout my entire soaping session.

Answer to question #1: You can definitely rebatch if you want, but you don't really have to if there is no lye-zap in your soap. I've soaped too cool before with certain butters resulting in resolidified stearic acid (I call them 'stearic spots'), and I just left my finished spotty soap 'as is' once I was certain there was no lye-zap, and they were absolutely fine.

Answer to question #2: I don't know that I would add any more oils to your soap if you rebatch. You already have a 15% superfat to begin with, and you also already added more coconut cream on top of that when you tried to beat it into submission. I would just put the soap in your crockpot and add nothing but water in tiny increments as needed to keep the soap moist enough while heating. I wouldn't chance adding more lye to it either. That just seems to me like an accident waiting to happen.

Answer to question #3: I've never used freshly chopped up coconut before, but If I had to guess, I would say that it wouldn't saponify, but would remain in the soap instead as a scrubby additive, like pumice for example.

Based on my own experience with stearic spotty soap I would say that as long as there is no lye-zap, I think your soap is fine.

IrishLass

 

[Emilee]

ok, thanks for that. i'll check for zap, and if none, then maybe leave it, depending on if i can handle looking at the spots.

knowing that, i wish i hadn't been so hasty in trying to put it back in the pot and adding more coconut cream, as the current soap is definitely softer than the original pour out. oh well.

what i don't quite understand is if it is spots of shea butter sitting there, and they have not saponified, how it can be ok? do they just sit there as shea butter, and be fine on your skin anyway?

 

[Emilee]

also, I'll definitly make sure i soap that one hotter in the future.

your answer about the finely chopped fresh coconut.....

ok so say that it doesn't saponify, but just sits in the soap like a scrubby additive like ground pumice, won't it rot or something?

Like i've seen people write that if you don't puree fresh things like cucumber and carrot properly, then they won't fully saponify, and cause bad things to happen in the soap.

I understand you can put dried stuff in soap, and its fine, but I thought being fresh there might be a problem?

 

[IrishLass]

what i don't quite understand is if it is spots of shea butter sitting there, and they have not saponified, how it can be ok? do they just sit there as shea butter, and be fine on your skin anyway?

Hi Emilee-

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner!

I should have been more clear in my post. What I meant to say is that I believe it's the stearic acid from your shea (not the shea butter as a whole, itself) that re-solidified and is making those spots. Before I learned the importance of soaping much warmer with high stearic acid-containing fats/butters, I made many a cool-soaped batch resulting in those annoying stearic spots. Even though they were unsightly, I left them 'as is' and they were perfectly okay. I still have some of them that are almost 2 years old and they have not gone rancid or DOS-y. That's why I said I believed yours would be okay as well. Also, stearic acid is a pretty stable acid that resists spoilage and that's another reason why I believe yours will be okay.

Oh, BTW, those stearic spotty soaps of mine felt just fine on my skin and they did not cause anything funky to happen my skin. 8)

ok so say that it doesn't saponify, but just sits in the soap like a scrubby additive like ground pumice, won't it rot or something? Like i've seen people write that if you don't puree fresh things like cucumber and carrot properly, then they won't fully saponify, and cause bad things to happen in the soap.

From what I have been able to understand- technically, fruits and veggies do not saponify, per se, but if they are pureed small enough (whether fresh or dried), the lye is able to surround and penetrate enough of it to act as a sort of preservative due to its high pH and prevent the pureed food from going bad. The trick is, 'the smaller the food, or the finer the puree, the better'. Chunks are not good. Their denseness prevents the lye from penetrating enough of it for the high pH to be able to affect it enough to prevent spoilage.

I think you are fine with fresh shredded coconut as long as the shreds are small and/or thin enough, and not chunky.

On another forum that I belong to I did a search on the use of coconut shreds in soap and there are quite a few people who have done it with good, lasting results. Some used dried coconut and some used the moist kind in a bag for baking. I would give it a try and see how it goes!


IrishLass

 

[Emilee]

ok, thanks very much for those 2 very informative answers.

I haven't quite decided if I want my coconut shea to be scrubby in the future, but if I do, maybe I'll try the fresh coconut again. it chopped up as finely as the dessicated coconut we buy here that is dried, so yeah.

made an avocado pear soap today, using fresh avocado and fresh pear, after reading your answer to my other post, I decided it was fine to go ahead.

looks lovely. i pureed the avocado and pear with a little of my goat milk and just added it after the lye/aloe.

why do you add your avocado to your oils? any particular reason?

 

[IrishLass]

ok, thanks very much for those 2 very informative answers.

why do you add your avocado to your oils? any particular reason?

You're welcome.

I just like it well incorporated before adding the lye so that I'm not over stickblending it into my already tracing soap batter with the chance that my soap will come to trace too quickly, leaving me with too short of a window for quick moving FOs and/or for 'play time' -doing extra color swirls.


IrishLass