First Castille

[BrewerGeorge]

After 2+ years of soaping, I finally got around to making a castille today. 100% olive, 95/5 Na/K, 40% lye concentration, and 2% superfat. I used an acellerating FO (BBs Cherry Blossom) and TiO2 so it traced relatively quickly - 15 min or so.

It was the coolest trace, very smooth and different from typical balanced mixes of fats. It's in the oven now for CPOP to gel.

Just wanted to say thanks to everybody here for teaching me everything about making this. We'll try it out next May.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

So... When do I cut this?

I thought it wound be three days, but it seems REALLY hard right now.

 

[DeeAnna]

I'd cut it when it's ready. The castile type soap I've made (not counting that "superlye" castile) is usually ready to cut about the same time as my more "normal" soap.

You could slice a bit off one end and see how it does. But I bet it's ready to cut, BG.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

You were right, DeeAnna, it was ready. I doubt I could have cut it tomorrow. This soap is very different.

 

[Soapprentice]

I'd cut it when it's ready. The castile type soap I've made (not counting that "superlye" castile) is usually ready to cut about the same time as my more "normal" soap.

You could slice a bit off one end and see how it does. But I bet it's ready to cut, BG.

What is superlye Castile?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Short answer- a Castile made with a lot of water and too much lye. The lye reacts with the air over time to neutralize. For the long answer, you'd be best off checking out the thread where they did the experiment and posted results

 

[DeeAnna]

Here is the "superlye" thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42922

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I can't get over how different this soap is. It's hard as a rock just two days after mixing it together. It's harder than my balance soaps ever get - in spite of having a harness level of only 17 on the calculator. What's the story there, that this supposed 17 is obviously so much harder than my balanced soap with its calculated 49 harness?

 

[toxikon]

Very cool, you've encouraged me to try a castille sometime!

I assume the combination of high lye concentration, dual lye and low SF helped it harden up quickly. I assume most castilles take so long to harden is most people using high water content.

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Very cool, you've encouraged me to try a castille sometime!

I assume the combination of high lye concentration, dual lye and low SF helped it harden up quickly. I assume most castilles take so long to harden is most people using high water content.

Hardness aside, it doesn't lather at all. Tried a corner trimming and simply could not make it lather, even with our softened water. Slick and soapy, and cleaned my hands, but not a bubble to be seen.

I'll move it out to the storage rack tonight and give it its year.

 

[DeeAnna]

The soaps I've made that are comparable to a 100% olive oil soap have all hardened up quickly and easily for me, so I've always wondered about the perception that these soaps are often overly soft. My personal experience with this type of soap is that it can be unmolded and cut within 24 hours of putting the soap in the mold, not days later. This covers soaps made with 100% olive oil, 70% high oleic (HO) sunflower + 30% avocado, 100% HO safflower, and the like. For high oleic recipes like these, I use lye concentration between, oh, 33% and 40% and let the soap get nice and warm during saponification. I don't normally go over 33% lye concentration for the other types of soap I make, but that's really the only significant change in my usual soap making procedures.

"... It's harder than my balance soaps ever get - in spite of having a harness level of only 17 on the calculator. What's the story there..."

I don't know the answer for sure, BG, but my thought is -- a high oleic soap contains soap molecules that are largely similar in size and shape. Even though oleic soap molecules have a bulky "U" shape, the overall uniformity in their size and shape may cause stable soap crystals to form more quickly, leading to the unusual hardness. Just a guess though.

 

[earlene]

Brewer George, I can't be sure, but I think the fact that it is made with dual lye has something to do with how quickly it got hard. For me, I noticed a distinct difference in my single lye (NaOH only) Castile and my dual lye Castile in how hard they got. I could be wrong about that as the reason, but it is what I experienced.

ETA: Also the lower SF might have something to do with it, too. For me I have also begun to lower my SF and it may have made a bit of a difference as well.

 

[WeaversPort]

Brewer George, I can't be sure, but I think the fact that it is made with dual lye has something to do with how quickly it got hard. For me, I noticed a distinct difference in my single lye (NaOH only) Castile and my dual lye Castile in how hard they got. I could be wrong about that as the reason, but it is what I experienced.

ETA: Also the lower SF might have something to do with it, too. For me I have also begun to lower my SF and it may have made a bit of a difference as well.

Have you been lowering your superfat in general? Or just with castile?

 

[earlene]

Have you been lowering your superfat in general? Or just with castile?

In general. I started out using the default in SoapCalc when I was new. After coming here and reading that several people liked a lower SF, I decided to try it, and am liking a 2% - 3% SF better. But it's only been a few months, so I can't discount that as a contributing factor to making soap harder faster.

 

[WeaversPort]

In general. I started out using the default in SoapCalc when I was new. After coming here and reading that several people liked a lower SF, I decided to try it, and am liking a 2% - 3% SF better. But it's only been a few months, so I can't discount that as a contributing factor to making soap harder faster.

I've been thinking about doing a side by side on the lower superfat as well. I'll probably do one of those with my normal recipes first, before trying a castile - only because I don't know what castile is supposed to do. I've never used one.

 

[ibct1969]

Hello BG,

I just made some castile this weekend and mine is rock hard as well- followed Soapqueen's recipe but didn't scent it. It really shouldn't lather after such a short period of time though???

 

[BrewerGeorge]

I grabbed one of these bars to test last night, just shy of eleven months old. This is a hard, hard bar, Folks. It feels more like a block of Delrin than soap.

It lathers very well, though the process is a bit different. My balanced bars just become lather when you rub them. This bar readily rubs off a slightly slimy, lotiony stuff that is easy to work into a lather. That slimy, ropy character is definitely still there before you lather it up, though, and it will stretch between parted fingers for an inch or so. It seem almost overly soluble like it would be really easy to get "too much" of that lotion on your hands, and I'm curious how that will impact the longevity of the soap. (I'm assuming that solubility is down to the KOH portion of the lye.) I'm rather sick of this scent, but I'll likely move it into the shower to test the longevity as soon as the current candidates are used up.

Overall, I think it's a nice bar of soap - way more pleasant to use than the 100% lard bars. I still prefer a balanced bar, but this would be second place.

 

[soapmaker]

The soaps I've made that are comparable to a 100% olive oil soap have all hardened up quickly and easily for me, so I've always wondered about the perception that these soaps are often overly soft. My personal experience with this type of soap is that it can be unmolded and cut within 24 hours of putting the soap in the mold, not days later. This covers soaps made with 100% olive oil, 70% high oleic (HO) sunflower + 30% avocado, 100% HO safflower, and the like. For high oleic recipes like these, I use lye concentration between, oh, 33% and 40% and let the soap get nice and warm during saponification. I don't normally go over 33% lye concentration for the other types of soap I make, but that's really the only significant change in my usual soap making procedures.

"... It's harder than my balance soaps ever get - in spite of having a harness level of only 17 on the calculator. What's the story there..."

I don't know the answer for sure, BG, but my thought is -- a high oleic soap contains soap molecules that are largely similar in size and shape. Even though oleic soap molecules have a bulky "U" shape, the overall uniformity in their size and shape may cause stable soap crystals to form more quickly, leading to the unusual hardness. Just a guess though.

This is my experience too. 34.5 lye solution, 100% OO, ready to cut in 18-24 hrs, very hard bar, lathers too!

 

[LucasSoap]

Interesting. My castille is ready to cut in about 8 hours (30% lye concentration).

 

[DeeAnna]

Mine might be too for all I know, but I don't usually bother to check. I usually soap in the afternoon, and 8 hours later would be the middle of the night. I don't stress about hovering and unmolding soap at the earliest possible instant -- anywhere up to 24 hours, and it's fine by me. It's a different story when the soap is still soft a couple of days later, however. But I can't say that's happened to me more than once or twice.