First Bars and Questions

[soapandwine]

Hi everyone,

I made my first log yesterday and I couldn't help myself and I've cut it into bars today. Maybe it hasn't been 24 hours, but close to it. I decided to use cocoa powder and I think I went WAY over the line with it, but it doesn't look too bad. My swirls are not all that good either, but hey...

Anyways, how long should I cure these bars for? They feel a little too oily. Is this because I've cut them too early? Will it go away with time? I used the following formula:

75% Olive Oil
20% Coconut Oil
5% Castor Oil
5% lye discount
120F Temperature

Thanks, Adrian.-

A (not so great) pic of my bars.

 

[agriffin]

Wow! Welcome and congrats on your soap! It looks good. I generally cut the next day. As long as it is firm enough you can cut it.

You can actually use it as long as it does not zap. Soap is better (longer lasting/more bubbly) after a nice long cure of 4-6 weeks. Your recipe is high in olive so I might even recommend a cure time of 6-8 weeks. High olive makes a wonderfully hard, creamy soap but needs a bit more time to cure/firm up.

They might lather a bit brown because of the cocoa, but you'll find out and can adjust for your next batch.

Great job!

 

[ChrisShepp]

Adrian,

Olive oil saponifies very slowly - not surprising that after 24 hours your bars are still a bit oily given the high %. I would zap test in a week or so, and if there is no zap, the soap should be fine. The extra oil will probably re-absorb over time, and if not, you can just blot it off with paper towels.

Give the bars an absolute minimum 6 weeks before you use them and form an opinion; a lot of soapers would let that recipe cure for 6 months before using.

 

[soapandwine]

thanks!!!!

Thanks for your help.

What is this "zap test" I hear about?

What other oils should I be using to help the saponification process speed up a bit? I see many use palm oil, but I don't even know where to buy it. I also want to keep costs down in the first few tries as I learn more.

I went to my local Indian grocery store (which happens to be about a block away, who knew?) and picked up the Coconut oil for about $0.24/ounce and the olive oil for about $0.16/ounce. I also bought some raw shea butter for $0.50/ounce which I plan to use soon.

Canola oil is cheap, but with an INS value so low at 56, I don't know if I can add too much. I haven't tried lard, but I might just go to the grocery store after lunch, buy some, and come back and give it a go.

I was thinking about using Crisco, but I don't really know what it is --sounds a bit too artificial... it might just be me-- so I don't know how "natural" the outcome will be.

Thanks

 

[ChrisShepp]

The zap test: take a bar of soap and lick it. Literally. If you feel a 'zap' - like touching a 9V battery to your tongue, that means one of two things: it hasn't finished saponifying, or it is lye heavy and not usable. If it tastes like plain old soap, you're good to go. Don't throw it away if it zaps after a week. Test again a week afte that.

These are some of the 'hard' oils:

Lard (very cheap, buy at walmart, less than $1/lb)
Tallow (very cheap, harder to find, try the butcher)
Palm (not too expensive but pretty much only avail. on the web)
Palm Kernel (pretty much web only)
Shea butter
Cocoa Butter

One of my all-time favorite recipes is 50 lard, 30 coconut, 15 olive, and 5 castor, with a superfat of 5%. It is ROCK hard after just a few weeks (thank you Lard), bubbles like crazy (thank you coconut and castor) and isn't drying (thank you olive) - and has the advantage of being almost stark white if you use a light-colored olive. Another recipe you could try would be 75% Coconut, 25% Cocoa Butter at 15% superfat. But watch out, it will heat up A LOT - warm your oils to til they go clear (130ish), then cool and mix with lye at about 90F. 'Hard' oils should be soaped at lower temps, as they tend to be the ones that heat up a lot.

Canola and Crisco are both very prone to rancidity (do a search on 'DOS'). They make decent soap, but I stay away from them personally. Soybean (Crisco is a blend of palm and soybean) makes very soft soap and can go bad. One way you can help to reduce the likelihood of DOS is to use distilled water, but its no guarantee.

INS in the finished recipe is ideally between 130-170 but that is not gospel. Iodine number should be 70 or less for a hard soap.
Do you know how to use SoapCalc? www.soapcalc.net. Check out the tutorial.

And finally, experiment, experiment, experiment. You learn by dropping the ball, not catching it

OH ps - use the plain old cheap olive oil that is light in color, dont waste money on EVOO.

 

[BakingNana]

They look great, except for one thing....

I had to make a pan of brownies after seeing your photo!! Thanks a lot!!

Congrats on a VERY successful first batch. You'll be surprised how much better they get as time passes.

 

[soapandwine]

Saweeet!!!

I'm so excited! so far my brownies (thanks BakingNana) seem to be hardening well. I've tested them and they feel great. Now I feel like eating brownies and it's time to sleep.

I made two more batches today, using some suggestions from y'all and I feel pretty happy.

Batch #2: I used lard, but this time I went with Essential Oils (Lavender mostly) and oatmeal grains. Looks good so far.
Batch #3: I also used lard, but this time with coconut milk and small diced cubes from my brownie batch (#1). I just peeked and it looks awesome and I don't use the word awesome.

So far I'm letting all gel. I don't know if this is good or not, but we'll see.

Anyone know what types of soaps I shouldn't gel?

Thanks again, Adrian.-

PS: I'll post pics tomorrow.

ChrisShepp: I also tasted a couple of bars, expecting to be zapped and half-electrocuted. Nothing happened. No zap. My tongue felt pretty clean though.

 

[xyxoxy]

Congratulations and welcome to the addiction!
Pretty soon your friends will begin asking you to PLEASE stop bringing soap into every conversation

You can use Crisco, Canola, Castor etc in soap with no problem but you will want to keep your percentages low. One version of Crisco includes Palm oil so it's not as worrisome. Crisco is just hydrogenated oils... nothing scary... and it's in soapcalc so you can get an idea of how it will affect your soap. I've made some great batches with it but I've also used Palm, CO, OO etc with it.

As for Castor I almost never make a batch without it... but it's usually only 5% and never more than 10%. It's great for making bubbly lather.

You can gel or not gel any recipe you like... just know that the finished products will look different and the cure times may differ. Since you are already in an experimental mood I suggest making a recipe of 1 to 2 pounds and splitting it when you pour. Gel half exactly as you have been doing and refrigerate or freeze the other half for 24-48 hours. That way you will see the difference clearly. I prefer to prevent gel on the majority of my batches... but either way it is all good soap.

Good luck...

ETA: Oh and when you DO have a soap that zaps... you will know it without a doubt. :shock:

 

[Lindy]

Congrats and welcome to our addiction....

I make a lot of high Olive Oil soaps and I find that they are hard pretty quickly. I also tend to cut within the first 24 hours. Mind you I'm getting better at letting them sit a little longer so I get a cleaner cut.

I agree with all of the suggestions given. I love Tallow soaps, they are so moisturizing with a deep thick lather.....

Good luck and remember we love pictures. Oh yeah and by the way what Chris said - dropping the ball will always be your best teacher....

 

[nebetmiw]

Adrain welcome to the forum. Looks like your doing a good job. A word on Crisco there is more than one type. Read ingridents before buying. One is a soy only formula the other a lard,tallow veggi formula. They will soap a little differnt but both will work.

I love my lard soaps. I use a 3 base formula lard,co and a liquid oil that I change every few recipes. So far it has been soy oil, safflower oil and now it is sweet almond oil. I do a 50 L, 30 CO,and 20 liquid. Always get a nice hard real white bar.

The great thing about soaping is it never has to stay the same. You can't get bored but it can cost you if you let it. Have fun.

 

[Jezzy]

Welcome!!! Congrats! I am craving brownies right now too!

 

[cwarren]

Welcome , I'm looking forward to your pictures.

 

[ChrisShepp]

ETA: Oh and when you DO have a soap that zaps... you will know it without a doubt. :shock:

Have you ever poured an entire packet of Pop Rocks into your mouth at once?

 

[soapandwine]

yeah!!!

First, I want to say I don't even know what Pop Rocks are, but I looked them up online and it sounds like I might not enjoy it all that much (although I'm pretty sure my little nephew might). I will get some next time i'm at CVS and try it. Is that what "the zap" is supposed to be like?

I just cut my soap and they look beautiful. One of them has what looks like little dots. I'm afraid. I think you can see it in the picture.

Thoughts?

From left to right:
Oatmeal Lavender and Frangipani
Cocoa Olive Oil "The Brownie"
Coconut Milk and Brownie bits

 

[ChrisShepp]

Very nice! My first attmepts at soap looked like your Brownie bars... only I didnt put any cocoa powder in! :shock:

The little dots look like they might be air bubbles - at least that is what miy soap looks like if I accidentally whip air into it while SB'ing. If the dots aren't zappy, just ignore. If it turns out they are air bubbles, just be really careful when blending. Also try pouring your oils down the side of the container when adding so they aren't agitated.

As for the Pop Rocks, I am pretty young so they are a nostalgic thing for me... you gotta give 'em a try at least once! All joking aside though, there is really no way to describe the zap other than when it happens, you'll know it.

 

[Jezzy]

Wow!!! They look great! I would zap test the dots..

What did you put on top of the oatmeal bar?

 

[soapandwine]

I'm pretty sure the dots are air bubbles. I was getting desperate because the mix wasn't coming to trace (the previous batches did very quickly) so I was blending like crazy and put a lot of air into it.

I will zap test, perhaps tomorrow. Does anyone know the effect of zap testing on one's taste or taste buds? I'm a big wine fan, getting my master sommelier credentials. I wouldn't want to ruin my taste/smell senses.

Jezzy: I added a bit of oatmeal on top of the oatmeal bars. I looks good, but I don't know if it's ok to keep it or not. does it go bad?

 

[Sunny]

The oatmeal on the tops won't go bad. It will stay dry and be just fine.

Love your soaps, they look great!

 

[Jezzy]

Maybe someone else some zap test for you? I have burned myself pretty bad zap testing! I don't think it does any permanent damage though...

I think every soaper should know what a zap is... :wink:

 

[soapandwine]

I have the perfect candidate to be my official zap tester. Thanks for the idea. I'll let you know how it goes.

A.-