Feedback on my tallow soap recipe

[Maddiesiler]

Hello all!

I’m new to the soapmaking world as of a few months ago. I got into it for fun, and have since truly become addicted! I’d love to start producing soaps to sell locally to my rural town, and have been working on developing a recipe.

I’ve tested variations of this recipe and have added things, but have overall dialed it in. Before I test it out with my one day sale products (lots more testing and curing and experimenting to go before market — just want to get the base recipe down!) I wanted some feedback.

Yes, this is a HIGH tallow recipe. I live in a rural area where beef fat is readily available and people love it. I would make a 100% tallow soap, and still might one day, but the 10% castor oil is added to bring up conditioning and add a few bubbles. I’d like to avoid adding other oils unless necessary.

I read on this forum 33% lye concentration is best, so that is what I added in this recipe.

I do plan on doing some basic swirls at some point.

I also add honey to every soap recipe with hopes to increase lather. 1.5tsp for the whole batch, mixed with about an ounce of the water (before it’s added to the lye) and added at a light trace.

ALL feedback is welcome. I’m relatively new in the grand scheme of things and love advice!

Specific questions:
Is the lower conditioning number really going to affect my soap? What could I add to increase it, and is it really THAT necessary?

Is my low cleansing number that bad? I read on this forum the cleansing number is one of those that is somewhat up for interpretation. Some soapers mentioned even a cleansing value of 1 would still clean because, it’s soap!

Thanks in advance! And here’s the soap Calc recipe!

 

[Maddiesiler]

Thanks if you read all that!

I also forgot to add, I just bought some Sodium Gluconate powder to use as a chelator. I’m not 100% sure how to incorporate it yet, but I will be adding it to every batch in hopes to not get DOS.

 

[Ekuzo]

You can dissolve the sodium gluconate in the liquid before adding the NaOH.

I think even with castor and honey your soap will benefit from having a little bit of CO ‐ it will be just different, more balanced and with better lather ‐ but if you and/or your customers like it that way, that's what matters. Just make sure you run plenty of tests before you start selling, as you mentioned you would do.

Pay attention to the castor % ‐ too much can add a certain stickiness and/or softness to the soap. I usually don't use more than 5%, some people use up to 7%.

33% lye solution is fine for soap with high tallow content.

As for the numbers ‐ they are just guidelines, nothing more. As you noticed, every properly made soap will be more or less cleansing. IMHO, the difference here is mostly visual, or how bubbly it is. And a lot of soapers actually like to keep the cleansing number low, to make sure the soap won't be too drying to the skin.

And conditioning in soap is a loose term. I think every oil that is not harsh adds to the conditioning (because conditioning only means how mild it is, as opposed to harsh and drying), even if the calculator doesn't count it among the 'conditioning' oils. Palm oil and tallow make a gentle soap, even if the numbers show otherwise and their 'conditioning' is low. That's the best you can expect from soap, because it is not lotion or balm.

Experiment and see how it is, with so many soapers and recipes come a lot of different tastes

 

[Maddiesiler]

You can dissolve the sodium gluconate in the liquid before adding the NaOH.

I think even with castor and honey your soap will benefit from having a little bit of CO ‐ it will be just different, more balanced and with better lather ‐ but if you and/or your customers like it that way, that's what matters. Just make sure you run plenty of tests before you start selling, as you mentioned you would do.

Pay attention to the castor % ‐ too much can add a certain stickiness and/or softness to the soap. I usually don't use more than 5%, some people use up to 7%.

33% lye solution is fine for soap with high tallow content.

As for the numbers ‐ they are just guidelines, nothing more. As you noticed, every properly made soap will be more or less cleansing. IMHO, the difference here is mostly visual, or how bubbly it is. And a lot of soapers actually like to keep the cleansing number low, to make sure the soap won't be too drying to the skin.

And conditioning in soap is a loose term. I think every oil that is not harsh adds to the conditioning (because conditioning only means how mild it is, as opposed to harsh and drying), even if the calculator doesn't count it among the 'conditioning' oils. Palm oil and tallow make a gentle soap, even if the numbers show otherwise and their 'conditioning' is low. That's the best you can expect from soap, because it is not lotion or balm.

Experiment and see how it is, with so many soapers and recipes come a lot of different tastes

Thank you SO much! I value this feedback a ton.

I had no idea about the castor oil. I had previously been experimenting with 7% castor and I liked the soap it produced, but I bumped it up to 10% only because it raised the conditioning value. After this advice, I think I'll drop it back down to the 7%. Sticky does not sound like something beneficial. I might even try a 5% Castor/5% CO combo and see how I like it! My goal is to 90% tallow just for consumer benefit, but the remaining 10% is up for messing with!

I also really appreciate the information on the guidelines. That's the information I was sort of gathering, but it's nice to have confirmation.

Just a quick question on the lye concentration, what makes you say that 33% is good for tallow? Just trying to learn everything I can!

 

[Ekuzo]

My pleasure!

Experiment and you will find the recipe you like the most. I don't sell but I'm still trying to find the balance between hardness/longevity and the way it lathers. Soap that doesn't lather well still cleans, but we are just too used to the visual feedback at this point, so having bubbles is considered a plus and it looks nice when you wash. And I don't care much about 'conditioning' - it's so vague of a concept in soap. Tbh, I like my soap with high CO content - yes, I'm one of those lol

As for the 33% lye solution - it's just a guideline again, nothing more. It's something that more or less depends on the personal preference, but usually when people make soap high in hard fats, they sort of compensate with more water to make the batter easier to work with. And vice versa - if your recipe has mostly liquid oils there's no need for much water and it will actually benefit from having a higher lye concentration, therefore less water to evaporate (and the soap is supposed to get hard faster). 33% lye gives enough water in the mixture, and if you are careful with the mixing and the temperature, it shouldn't get to trace too fast and can still be workable (at least in theory, that depends on other things as well). I'm personally one who uses 40% lye concentration since I don't see benefit in having more water in the mix than I need (keep in mind I'm not into swirls and fancy designs, so that works well for me). Even when I make 100% CO soap, I still use 40% lye concentration and I feel comfortable that way, but most people go for lower concentrations, especially with similar 'hard' recipes. The consensus is that 33% is a really good starting point for most people and you can adjust to your liking later. For now and for this recipe, it's okay

 

[Maddiesiler]

My pleasure!

Experiment and you will find the recipe you like the most. I don't sell but I'm still trying to find the balance between hardness/longevity and the way it lathers. Soap that doesn't lather well still cleans, but we are just too used to the visual feedback at this point, so having bubbles is considered a plus and it looks nice when you wash. And I don't care much about 'conditioning' - it's so vague of a concept in soap. Tbh, I like my soap with high CO content - yes, I'm one of those lol

As for the 33% lye solution - it's just a guideline again, nothing more. It's something that more or less depends on the personal preference, but usually when people make soap high in hard fats, they sort of compensate with more water to make the batter easier to work with. And vice versa - if your recipe has mostly liquid oils there's no need for much water and it will actually benefit from having a higher lye concentration, therefore less water to evaporate (and the soap is supposed to get hard faster). 33% lye gives enough water in the mixture, and if you are careful with the mixing and the temperature, it shouldn't get to trace too fast and can still be workable (at least in theory, that depends on other things as well). I'm personally one who uses 40% lye concentration since I don't see benefit in having more water in the mix than I need (keep in mind I'm not into swirls and fancy designs, so that works well for me). Even when I make 100% CO soap, I still use 40% lye concentration and I feel comfortable that way, but most people go for lower concentrations, especially with similar 'hard' recipes. The consensus is that 33% is a really good starting point for most people and you can adjust to your liking later. For now and for this recipe, it's okay

WOW. In one paragraph you made me completely understand lye concentrations! I'm not sure how you were able to explain that so perfectly, but I feel like a lightbulb just went off in my brain. Thank you so much!!

I'll be sure to do lots of experimenting before sale. Honestly, I think that's half the fun!!

I appreciate the insight too on the bubbles. I didn't honestly think of it that way before but I'll definitely have to do some more work.

Thanks so much for everything!

 

[Ekuzo]

WOW. In one paragraph you made me completely understand lye concentrations! I'm not sure how you were able to explain that so perfectly, but I feel like a lightbulb just went off in my brain. Thank you so much!!

I'll be sure to do lots of experimenting before sale. Honestly, I think that's half the fun!!

I appreciate the insight too on the bubbles. I didn't honestly think of it that way before but I'll definitely have to do some more work.

Thanks so much for everything!

No worries, always glad to help!

Don't hesitate to ask anything, this place is a huge well of knowledge - and be sure to share your progress

 

[Ekuzo]

This video got recommended to me and I decided to share - it may be useful and kind of related to the topic. Showing the qualities of different well known and widely used base oils and what it turns out like when a single oil soap is made with them. Not usually a fan of youtube videos, but this is actually cool, short and straight to the point, plus it provides a little bit of theory behind the 'why this happens'. Might be great for the visual learners on the forum, especially those who are into using single oils or high % of a single one.

My guess is that soap made with tallow would probably behave similarly to the PO soap in the video, but adding CO and castor should change that a bit and add to the overall balance - as you mentioned you want to try

 

[Maddiesiler]

That is such a good video, thank you for sharing! It makes me want to go buy more oils ASAP, LOL!

Okay, last question that totally popped up as I was really critiquing my 93% tallow/7% castor oil soap. Would only adding 5% CO actually do anything to add bubbles? The soap I have already made actually lathers and bubbles pretty well, but only when under a lot of water (Like in the shower). When just used as a hand soap bar and exposed to water briefly, you don't really get a whole lot. I'm thinking a 90% tallow/5% castor/5% CO.

Other than that, I love the soap. It's super smooth and feels amazing!

 

[AliOop]

Castor oil doesn't create lather; it merely stabilizes the lather created by the other saponified fatty acids. Tallow has some of those fatty acids, but not a whole lot. So if you are trying to keep the ingredients minimal, I'd lean towards using some CO or PKO rather than the castor oil. Of course, if keeping a short ingredient list isn't an issue, then by all means, use both.

I make a lot of high-tallow soaps and really like them with 10-15% CO (or a mix of CO and PKO). Sounds like you are already boosting lather by adding honey, as well. I use sorbitol at 1-2% of oils for the same reason. It really helps when making soap recipes with high amounts of single oils such as lard and tallow that aren't super bubbly on their own.

 

[Ekuzo]

That is such a good video, thank you for sharing! It makes me want to go buy more oils ASAP, LOL!

Okay, last question that totally popped up as I was really critiquing my 93% tallow/7% castor oil soap. Would only adding 5% CO actually do anything to add bubbles? The soap I have already made actually lathers and bubbles pretty well, but only when under a lot of water (Like in the shower). When just used as a hand soap bar and exposed to water briefly, you don't really get a whole lot. I'm thinking a 90% tallow/5% castor/5% CO.

Other than that, I love the soap. It's super smooth and feels amazing!

I agree with the above. With added 5% each castor and CO you should already notice an improvement, but if you increase the CO it will get even better. Experiment and find that sweet spot you like the most. With enough bubbly factors in the recipe it's possible to get rich lather even after a brief usage with hard water. I don't know what your water is, but you mentioned you want to sell and you don't know in what conditions your customers will use your soap. Apart from the CO and the sugar additives, you can also use some citric acid/sodium citrate to battle soap scum accumulation and therefore help with the lathering indirectly. It will also decrease the chances of DOS appearing even further (your recipe already has low chances of DOS as long as your fats are fresh)

 

[Maddiesiler]

I make a lot of high-tallow soaps and really like them with 10-15% CO (or a mix of CO and PKO). Sounds like you are already boosting lather by adding honey, as well. I use sorbitol at 1-2% of oils for the same reason. It really helps when making soap recipes with high amounts of single oils such as lard and tallow that aren't super bubbly on their own.

I'd love to give that a try! On SoapCalc when I do a higher level of CO like that, I notice the conditioning goes wayyy down. I know now not too pay *too* much attention to it, but it still makes me pause! Do you find that they are still conditioning? Do you do anything to counteract that like higher SF or a different oil?

Experiment and find that sweet spot you like the most. With enough bubbly factors in the recipe it's possible to get rich lather even after a brief usage with hard water. I don't know what your water is, but you mentioned you want to sell and you don't know in what conditions your customers will use your soap. Apart from the CO and the sugar additives, you can also use some citric acid/sodium citrate to battle soap scum accumulation and therefore help with the lathering indirectly. It will also decrease the chances of DOS appearing even further (your recipe already has low chances of DOS as long as your fats are fresh)

Thank you for this! I definitely have hard water at my place, I didn't know it would affect the ability to lather! So much to learn!

I have citric acid I could try, but I already am using sodium gluconate as a chelator in my recipe. Can you use both? And do you just add the citric acid to the lye water?

 

[Ekuzo]

I'd love to give that a try! On SoapCalc when I do a higher level of CO like that, I notice the conditioning goes wayyy down. I know now not too pay *too* much attention to it, but it still makes me pause! Do you find that they are still conditioning? Do you do anything to counteract that like higher SF or a different oil?


Thank you for this! I definitely have hard water at my place, I didn't know it would affect the ability to lather! So much to learn!

I have citric acid I could try, but I already am using sodium gluconate as a chelator in my recipe. Can you use both? And do you just add the citric acid to the lye water?

I don't think 10-15% CO will affect the so called 'conditioning' properties of the soap in a negative way - meaning it shouldn't be too drying. Don't mind the numbers in this case. Lauric/myristic content is great in soap.

Oh, I forgot you mentioned sodium gluconate in your second post - there's no need to use citric acid in that case. Limit it to 1 of those. If you need to use citric acid one day, you can dissolve it in the water before you add the NaOH. And it's not a bad idea to account for the additional NaOH you need in that case (unless you want a higher SF) - 1 g of citric acid neutralizes 0.624 g of NaOH. When you use gluconate or sodium citrate the additional math is not needed

 

[AliOop]

I'd love to give that a try! On SoapCalc when I do a higher level of CO like that, I notice the conditioning goes wayyy down. I know now not too pay *too* much attention to it, but it still makes me pause! Do you find that they are still conditioning? Do you do anything to counteract that like higher SF or a different oil?

Honestly, soap never feels "conditioning" to me - not the way a lotion does. But I don't find this recipe to be drying to my skin. I do tend to prefer a blend of lard and tallow when I have both on hand, just like a prefer a blend of CO and PKO when I have the time to carve the PKO out of the bucket.