Fats/butters supplementing have question

[Desirae]

Crisco is hydrogenated palm oil. GV shortening is tallow + hydrogenated palm oil. If you want strictly hydrogenated palm oil, then Crisco is what you want. I assumed (I know that is always a bad idea) that you wanted GV shortening due to the discussion that preceded your shopping trip.

No one is assuming that you are stupid or arrogant. We all had this same learning curve going into soaping. You just need to be patient with us as we try to address one issue at the time. Also, you need to take the time to do that reading. You have so many questions that will be answered by reading. It isn't that we don't want to help, we do, or we would not be here. It is that you will even have questions answered that you did not even know enough to ask yet if you go do that reading. Read everything with "help" in the title, at least.

The type of olive oil does indeed make a difference! The darker green, more "virgin" olive oils will cause more problems for you right now that you do not want to be dealing with-like color and how your batter behaves. Save yourself some time and money and buy that cheap yellow GV brand OO. It is what I soap with as I get good consistent results with it.

KOH is potassium hydroxide, that is what you make liquid soap with. Ignore it. Just use the NaOH.

Did you read that tutorial for Soapcalc? If not, go read it before proceeding.

I will use whats left of my weekend to read over those threads and also make a quick trip bac to Walmart to get the GV brand, when I saw the size of the container I figured that since I'm only starting out on making soap from scratch I should get a small container and then if I see I can do it without screwing anything up then ill mov to the big container but my Walmart only carries 1 size and it was like 64 oz, the Crisco I got was only 8 and since I don't no space left in my cart drawer thing I'm using to store everything I thought I was better off, but then again if I do well at my 1st try then ill have to buy more and so itll just save me the additional trip so ill swing back there tomorrow.

also I asked this before but no one answered my question, when working with the lye I read it says to wear eye protection, another one I read said googles. I have a pair of safety glasses (I use those when I go to the gun range) can I wear those or do they need to be googles? this way if I need those I can get them at the same time I'm getting the GV shortening.. thank you soooooo very much for all your advice, and now ill stop with all my questions and get to reading those threads.

 

[Arimara]

This page can help you use SoapCalc, if you still are up for the challenge. I still like Soap Calc since I hate scrolling down a page to see my numbers (I'm a little lazy). Still, Soapee is more user-friendly and you can save your soaps there.

I don't mind lard or tallow in soaps but my preference is for tallow. My skin can get weird with lard and the cleansing nature of tallow allows for me to use less coconut oil or palm kernel oil. Both fats, in my opinion, leaves palm eating their dust as neither of them instill a waxy-feeling nature that palm oil can at usage rates over about 30% or so. I will admit, with both fats, I have had a smell develop after saponification but it always cured out after 3 months (my nose is a little adverse to pork since I can't eat too much of it). It may seem like a downfall but I can't complain since those soaps rewarded me for waiting.

In truth, Susie, Snappy, others gave great advice to you for you learning experience. The only thing I can do is challenge you to take a recipe and soap 50% palm in one batch and 50% lard in another. That should help you develop a feel for what you like in your soap. I'd also worry about butters another time. Many of use could really go in on them an I'm no exception.

 

[Desirae]

This page can help you use SoapCalc, if you still are up for the challenge. I still like Soap Calc since I hate scrolling down a page to see my numbers (I'm a little lazy). Still, Soapee is more user-friendly and you can save your soaps there.

I don't mind lard or tallow in soaps but my preference is for tallow. My skin can get weird with lard and the cleansing nature of tallow allows for me to use less coconut oil or palm kernel oil. Both fats, in my opinion, leaves palm eating their dust as neither of them instill a waxy-feeling nature that palm oil can at usage rates over about 30% or so. I will admit, with both fats, I have had a smell develop after saponification but it always cured out after 3 months (my nose is a little adverse to pork since I can't eat too much of it). It may seem like a downfall but I can't complain since those soaps rewarded me for waiting.

In truth, Susie, Snappy, others gave great advice to you for you learning experience. The only thing I can do is challenge you to take a recipe and soap 50% palm in one batch and 50% lard in another. That should help you develop a feel for what you like in your soap. I'd also worry about butters another time. Many of use could really go in on them an I'm no exception.

I was actually thinking of making soap out of both, 1 batch using palm only and another of lard only, then maybe doing a batch with 50/50 of both. This way I can get a feel for what each feels like on the skin. I read that palm can be waxy and I certainly don't want anything on my skin that feels like that so I'd probably stick with the 15-20%, I've read somewhere with coconut in order for it to cure in 4week to keep it under 20%, different sites say different things. I plan to get started tomorrow on trying this all out, I do need still to get a plastic pitcher with the ppl 5, the one I have I believe is a pp1 or pp2.

Thanks for your tips, it's most helpful

 

[Arimara]

That's a good idea. You'll definitely get a feel for what you like that way. As for Pitchers, try the dollar tree or whatever's near by. As long as the plastic number is 2, 5, or 7, YOu should be fine. A 2qt pitcher would be ideal if you're starting out with 16oz or 500g batches. Mixing lye in that would be a lot safer, especially later down the road if you feel adventurous and want to try your hand at a beer soap.

 

[newbie]

Now I have this running through my head, so I'm planting it in other people's to share the wealth.


[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dL7X8tuxxM[/ame]

 

[CaraBou]

Your shooting glasses should be fine - the point is to protect your eyes from any batter splatter. The larger the area of your face that the glasses cover, the better. Just like shooting, ALWAYS wear your glasses when soaping.

Also, I think you did fine buying the small container of crisco and seeing how you like making soap. You can always buy more / something different later. It's just that we're all betting that you'll become a soaping addict like we are. 64 oz aint nuthin to the rest of us, honey. :twisted:

 

[Susie]

Your shooting glasses should be fine - the point is to protect your eyes from any batter splatter. The larger the area of your face that the glasses cover, the better. Just like shooting, ALWAYS wear your glasses when soaping.

Also, I think you did fine buying the small container of crisco and seeing how you like making soap. You can always buy more / something different later. It's just that we're all betting that you'll become a soaping addict like we are. 64 oz aint nuthin to the rest of us, honey. :twisted:

^^^^This!

I am sorry to tell you that you have all the hallmarks of a serious soaping addict. Welcome to the addiction! It's the only one you won't want to get over.

 

[navigator9]

As far as formulating recipes goes, to start off, I would use one offered on this forum, or found in a book, with ingredients that appeal to you, but always be sure to run any recipe through a soap calculator first, no matter where you find it, because there is always the possibility of an error. Although many may disagree, I think when you are first starting out, it's a good idea to go as simple as possible, with no color or fragrance, so that you can get the hang of the actual soapmaking process, because that can be confusing enough at first. There's plenty of time to get fancy later. Once you have a baseline soap recipe, you can adjust from there. Too drying? Maybe you want to try less coconut and more olive. Not enough lather? Maybe some castor or sugar. Too soft? It may need more palm. Having that first soap to judge by, will help you know where you want to go from there. I know it all seems very intimidating at first, but if we all learned how to do it...so will you! :-D

 

[BrewerGeorge]

Shooting glasses are pretty good, especially if the wrap around the sides. That's what I use, too. You shkuld wear a hat with a brim, too. Things splatter up then down.

 

[Desirae]

No, Crisco is not the same as GV shortening. It has its own line on the soaping calculators. You should have picked up the lard, though.

Here is the SoapCalc tutorial: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627

I use Soapee.com lye calculator, as I find it less cluttered, and it will save my recipes. SAVE YOUR RECIPES!!!! Print them out, or save them on the computer, I don't care. But SAVE THEM.

I am going to give you my standard basic recipe. This is not some dumbed down recipe because you are a newbie, this is what I use to make 80% of the batches I make because I have tried all the expensive stuff, and this is what works best for me. Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to plug it into a lye calculator to find out how much NaOH and water to use. I typically use 32 oz of oil in a batch, as this is what fits my mold.

Lard 65% (you can try substituting palm or tallow, or use a combination of two or three)
Coconut Oil 15%
Olive Oil 15%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%

I big problem that I'm not seeing on this soapee calculator, since I put everything in as %, now how am I suppose to know how to trun that % into grams? I was about to try your recipe but cant now bc I have no idea how to change 65% lard into how much I'm actually suppose to weigh out. can you tell me how to do that?

nevermind, apparently I need to get my eyes checked, I found it, I feel like a dodo

 

[Desirae]

So a few things I'm figuring out, lye solution takes forever for the temperature to come down it started out at 165, it's now down to 123 degrees it's taken 20 min so far for it to do that, I've read in many many places to not add the lye solution to the oils til the lye in below 100 degrees but two lower then 90, secondly, lard stinks to high hell, omg this stuff is making my whole house STINK, think next time I'll do the straight cisco instead bc that I know for a fact has such a low smell you can hardly smell it, can I use the shortening 100% in place of the lard, bc as bad as this stuff stinKS and making my 2 story house stink of it, either it's brand or lard stinks this bad all the time no matter what brand it is, my hubby will kill me if it's constantly stinking and he'll make me use the all vegetable based only. Any takers? Is it this brand only or do all lard brands stink to high hell? This brand is Lundy, it's the ONLY brand my walmart carries, my local food stores, food lion and Kroger don't sell Lard so if it's only this brand then I can't be using it since I won't be able to find any other brand in my area.

 

[Desirae]

No, Crisco is not the same as GV shortening. It has its own line on the soaping calculators. You should have picked up the lard, though.

Here is the SoapCalc tutorial: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=49627

I use Soapee.com lye calculator, as I find it less cluttered, and it will save my recipes. SAVE YOUR RECIPES!!!! Print them out, or save them on the computer, I don't care. But SAVE THEM.

I am going to give you my standard basic recipe. This is not some dumbed down recipe because you are a newbie, this is what I use to make 80% of the batches I make because I have tried all the expensive stuff, and this is what works best for me. Your mission (should you choose to accept it) is to plug it into a lye calculator to find out how much NaOH and water to use. I typically use 32 oz of oil in a batch, as this is what fits my mold.

Lard 65% (you can try substituting palm or tallow, or use a combination of two or three)
Coconut Oil 15%
Olive Oil 15%
Castor Oil 5%

Superfat 5%

I wish I had your phone number or a way to get in touch with you. I followed your recipe exactly, and I let the lye cool to 99.5 degrees my oils we at 92 degrees, I've been sticky blending for the last 20 min with short Burts, just like I read in multiple areas and I havent gotten even the least slightest trace, what am I doing wrong

 

[CaraBou]

How are things now Desirae? I imagine by now everything is quiet and the soap is doing its thing in the mold. I would also expect the loaf smells very good - what did you add for fragrance?

 

[Susie]

Hopefully you got trace. I soap much hotter than 110 F! I melt and mix the oils, then add the NaOH to the water, then I pour that HOT mixture into my oils so we can get trace and get done. If I am lazy, I will even just use the hot lye/water mixture to melt my oils.

I have never used Lundy's, but hopefully you added some sort of CP safe fragrance to it. My lard does not cause my house to stink any worse than say frying a pork chop does.

 

[Desirae]

How are things now Desirae? I imagine by now everything is quiet and the soap is doing its thing in the mold. I would also expect the loaf smells very good - what did you add for fragrance?

Well, after what took about 45min, I finally got my mix to a very light trace so went ahead and added coconut fragrance to half of the batch and nutmeg to the other half, as well as some vanilla extract to the nutmeg and some brown mica, it's been sitting in the mold, which actually is a 6 bar mold not a loaf, the loaf I have is made for 3 lbs and I calculated the 774 grams recipe Susie gave me to be only 1 lb so it wouldn't fit in my loaf any ways. Been sitting for about 2.5 hrs now and all I smell is the stinch stink of the lard, so hopefully tomorrow when I take the bars out of the mold add is still way to soft to take our yet, I'm hoping I'll actually be able to smell the fragrance , if I still smell lard stinch then it's going in the trash and starting over and this time with the gv shortening. So cross your fingers for me.
Thx for asking

 

[Desirae]

Hopefully you got trace. I soap much hotter than 110 F! I melt and mix the oils, then add the NaOH to the water, then I pour that HOT mixture into my oils so we can get trace and get done. If I am lazy, I will even just use the hot lye/water mixture to melt my oils.

I have never used Lundy's, but hopefully you added some sort of CP safe fragrance to it. My lard does not cause my house to stink any worse than say frying a pork chop does.

I did finally gother trace but took almost an hr. So what temperature of the lye do you suggest I leave it at when I pour it into the oils ? So the hotter the lye solution is the faster I'll get to trace? I wonder why all the you tube videos ivery watched example the squishy monster is 1, says to wait till the lye is btwn 90-100 degrees before adding it to the oils.

I can honestly say I've never thought about using lard to cook pork chops with, to be honest until now, I didn't know what it was used for. Can I sub the 65% lard for 65% gv shortening the next time? Of course I'll run it through soapee calc.

 

[Arimara]

I did finally gother trace but took almost an hr. So what temperature of the lye do you suggest I leave it at when I pour it into the oils ? So the hotter the lye solution is the faster I'll get to trace? I wonder why all the you tube videos ivery watched example the squishy monster is 1, says to wait till the lye is btwn 90-100 degrees before adding it to the oils.

I can honestly say I've never thought about using lard to cook pork chops with, to be honest until now, I didn't know what it was used for. Can I sub the 65% lard for 65% gv shortening the next time? Of course I'll run it through soapee calc.

Lard is used in baking and cooking. Think about those delicious, flaky biscuits and pie crusts that everyone raved about or if someone wanted to be 'authentic' and make a spaghetti carbonara dish with pancetta and did not want olive oil in that dish. People commonly sub shortening and/or butter or for lard these days but in truth, some of the best baked goods I've had were made with some lard (and my belly paid for it).

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Which brand lard did you use? How hot did you heat it up to? Lard generally doesn't stink if you avoid certain brands and don't over heat it

 

[Susie]

Well, after what took about 45min, I finally got my mix to a very light trace so went ahead and added coconut fragrance to half of the batch and nutmeg to the other half, as well as some vanilla extract to the nutmeg and some brown mica, it's been sitting in the mold, which actually is a 6 bar mold not a loaf, the loaf I have is made for 3 lbs and I calculated the 774 grams recipe Susie gave me to be only 1 lb so it wouldn't fit in my loaf any ways. Been sitting for about 2.5 hrs now and all I smell is the stinch stink of the lard, so hopefully tomorrow when I take the bars out of the mold add is still way to soft to take our yet, I'm hoping I'll actually be able to smell the fragrance , if I still smell lard stinch then it's going in the trash and starting over and this time with the gv shortening. So cross your fingers for me.
Thx for asking

1. Never, ever add vanilla extract to soap batter or liquid or anything soap related. Not a good idea. Causes weird stuff to happen. When you say you used fragrances, where did you buy them, and are you sure they are safe for CP soap?

2. I gave you a percentage recipe. You set it up for the weights.

3. You need to let that sit at least 24 hours since it is not a loaf. If it is still soft in 24 hours, freeze them for a couple of hours before trying to unmold them. Did you not read anything about how long before unmolding??

4. You don't fry pork chops in lard. The fat that comes off of pork chops IS lard, as lard is pork/pig fat.

5. There is a vast difference between what some of the people on YouTube say and reality. You need experienced folks to help you figure out what is truth and what is not. Or you can do it the hard way and figure it out yourself.

 

[lenarenee]

I've easily used 100+ lbs of lard since I started soaping less than 3 years ago. I've used 4 different brands of lard. No one brand smelled any better or worse than the others. Sometimes there's no smell, usually there's slight odor, one time I bought some with an extremely strong odor and I threw it out.

You may have one of those. Or you may be very sensitive to the smell.
It does need to be melted gently, and patiently with as low a heat as possible to avoid aggravating the strength of the smell. I often preheat the burner, add the lard to the pot, cover pot, wait 2 - 3 minutes, then turn the heat off and walk away. Sometimes I need to turn the heat back on to finish some melting, but I don't leave the heat on.