Expert help Please!

[iwannasoap]

I was making soap last night. I decided to try this ghost thing but with color as in this website.
https://auntieclaras.com/2014/08/intentional-crop-circles-water-discount-as-a-design-tool/
I wanted to try the blue one and so this is my third attempt. The first one I had to throw in the trash. The second one I didn't put in the oven, and this is the third attempt.
She mentions 140 degrees and for an 1 1/2 hours and takes pictures along the way. Well, I go and try it and about 30 minutes later it looks like the picture.
I read some more about these things. I read a story on this site that she did it and hers liquefied and turned to alien brains but she left it in over night anyway and it hardened back up.
Well, here it is - overnight and still nothing!
Can somebody explain the correct way to cpop and tell me exactly why it works for claire and not on this side of the world.
Can you tell me your experiance and how to fix this?

 

[Obsidian]

I've only did ghost swirls once and if I remember right, I didn't cpop it.

I do however cpop when I want to ensure gel. I heat my oven to 170, turn it off then put the soap. The time I tried to leave the oven on, it ruined my soap.

Looks like your soap got way too hot and separated. I can see oil floating on top. I would dump it in a crock pot and see if you can get it mixed back together.
Or you could try using your stick blended while the soap is still in the mold if it's hot and liquid.

 

[iwannasoap]

I've only did ghost swirls once and if I remember right, I didn't cpop it.

I do however cpop when I want to ensure gel. I heat my oven to 170, turn it off then put the soap. The time I tried to leave the oven on, it ruined my soap.

Looks like your soap got way too hot and separated. I can see oil floating on top. I would dump it in a crock pot and see if you can get it mixed back together.
Or you could try using your stick blended while the soap is still in the mold if it's hot and liquid.

Yes it did.
I read what causes this and I did everything wrong.
https://auntieclaras.com/2015/06/overheating-soap/
But it doesn't say how to fix this. I will wait a little while to see what others say and then I hope to get my wife to cook it in the crock pot.
And, how did you pull it off without putting it in the oven? My last batch, I was afraid to mess it up so I didn't put it in the oven. It was 1.4 and 1.6 ratios but it didn't do any ghosting.
I'm afraid we our oils are down too low and I don't want to waste this one.

 

[cherrycoke216]

on my phone screen it looks like puddle of oils?
I second Obsidian's advice to srickblending it in mold or crockpot rebatch it. ( because it has some extra space in your silicone mold so you can sure use a stickblender straight )

You can search rebatch on this site. Do NOT add any liquid to your soap batter now, as it's still fresh and contains lots of water.


http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=39846
CPOP oil separating

Try turn off oven once soap is in it, and maybe don't leave the light on. ( But some do, and it went out ok. )

 

[iwannasoap]

on my phone screen it looks like puddle of oils?
I second Obsidian's advice to srickblending it in mold or crockpot rebatch it. ( because it has some extra space in your silicone mold so you can sure use a stickblender straight )

You can search rebatch on this site. Do NOT add any liquid to your soap batter now, as it's still fresh and contains lots of water.


http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=39846
CPOP oil separating

Try turn off oven once soap is in it, and maybe don't leave the light on. ( But some do, and it went out ok. )

I appreciate the link. I like the one idea on there about not putting it in the oven right away but let it sit overnight and then let it go through the second gel phase in the oven. I might try that next time.
I took that picture 2.5 hours ago and I checked it just now. All the space in between the puff balls are turning white and the balls are remaining blue. It looks like it might be hardening?-I hope. So, if it does harden it might turn out interesting looking.
What I did wrong was put a silicone mold in the oven which expanded the water and it broke the surface tension and rose to the top. I should have just placed it in the oven and turned the oven off but I was reading one of claire somebody or other article and she didn't mention the negative affects of silicone molds. I just found that articel here..
https://auntieclaras.com/2015/06/overheating-soap/
I wish she would have said how to fix it! But I hope it turns out. If it turns out I'll post another picture so others can see the changes and what I went through. I hope it works because my wife is threatening me to never make soap again. I am not new to making soap but I am new at having problems in trying something new. I guess that qualifies as a newbie!
But one good thing - I do know the gelling phase very well now through my mistakes. Low water does gel. It just does it much faster then higher water, if at all, so the colors are not as brilliant. It does take time and the water increases that time.
Heated dirt wont become mud till you add water! I am just not good with the oven. I cant even cook food mush less soap!

 

[navigator9]

As far as CPOP goes, you'll find many different ideas about how to do it, but back when I learned the process it involved not forcing, but gently encouraging the soap to gel all the way to the edges. Forcing gel, by adding to much heat can result in all kinds of problems.

This is the method I use that works ( for me at least ) every time, gelled all the way, no silicone rash, no alien brains, no cracking. Just before I start to soap, I turn on my oven to it's lowest setting, mine is 170 degrees. I put my wooden box with silicone liner in the oven to prewarm, then I make the soap. When I'm ready to pour, I remove the mold, pour, and then return the mold to the oven, close the door, turn the oven off, and leave it overnight, without ever opening the door.

Soap wants to gel on its own, but for various reasons, it sometimes doesn't gel all the way. All it needs is a gentle push, and the above method is just enough of a push to get it to gel to the edges. Your mold is in a metal basket, not a wooden box, I don't know how that might affect the outcome. There are also a lot of other variables that can come into play, but I think the main point is adding just enough gentle heat to get the soap to gel all the way.

 

[iwannasoap]

As far as CPOP goes, you'll find many different ideas about how to do it, but back when I learned the process it involved not forcing, but gently encouraging the soap to gel all the way to the edges. Forcing gel, by adding to much heat can result in all kinds of problems.

This is the method I use that works ( for me at least ) every time, gelled all the way, no silicone rash, no alien brains, no cracking. Just before I start to soap, I turn on my oven to it's lowest setting, mine is 170 degrees. I put my wooden box with silicone liner in the oven to prewarm, then I make the soap. When I'm ready to pour, I remove the mold, pour, and then return the mold to the oven, close the door, turn the oven off, and leave it overnight, without ever opening the door.

Soap wants to gel on its own, but for various reasons, it sometimes doesn't gel all the way. All it needs is a gentle push, and the above method is just enough of a push to get it to gel to the edges. Your mold is in a metal basket, not a wooden box, I don't know how that might affect the outcome. There are also a lot of other variables that can come into play, but I think the main point is adding just enough gentle heat to get the soap to gel all the way.

I will definitely take that into consideration next time and thanks for the tip.

Just read something interesting. Thought I would get back with you on this.
- Boiling a pan of water
-Put the soap in the oven
-Place the boiling water on the bottom of the oven
-Heat to 400 degrees for exactly 1 minute
-Turn off the oven and leave the heated water in with the soap?
What do you think would be the result ~ Maybe at a lower temperature?

 

[Obsidian]

And, how did you pull it off without putting it in the oven? My last batch, I was afraid to mess it up so I didn't put it in the oven. It was 1.4 and 1.6 ratios but it didn't do any ghosting.
I'm afraid we our oils are down too low and I don't want to waste this one.

If I remember right, I covered my mold with a cutting board and wrapped it in a towel really well so it would gel.
At the time I was having issues with CPOP and didn't want to try again. I've since figured it out by using gentle heat and not trying to force it.

EDIT: reading through the challenge thread, I see I did indeed use the oven. Not sure what temp I used but the soap turned out fine.

Personally, I wouldn't try a really hot oven and bowl of water. Just seems like it would be a waste of time and too many possible things to go wrong.

Might I suggest you buy a really cheap oil and practice CPOP, that way you can just toss out any failures. Once you get it down, then try the ghost swirls.

As bad as your soap separated, even if it did harden it probably would be a oily greasy mess. It needs to be rebatched in order to make it usable.

 

[earlene]

I've done ghost swirl a few times. Only once was did I feel it was a total fail. I assumed it was either some kind of accidental measuring error on my part &/or a problem with one of my additives (a natural colorant powder that I had not used before &/or the Fragrance). Eventually, I re-batched that batch. But the rest turned out fine and I was happy with them.

For me, it seemed evident that practice with small batches a few times before doing a larger batch was absolutely necessary, so I'm glad that's the route I took. I did CPOP some of them, but not all of them when I did the Ghost Swirl. My recipes tend to be non-animal fats and very low to no Coconut Oil, and I try to soap on the cool side, so I rarely get heat acceleration.

The way I CPOP is pretty standard. I turn the oven on to the lowest setting, which on my oven is about 150 degrees Fahrenheit. I turn it off when I put the soap inside and I also insulate the soap inside the oven. I use my infra-red thermometer to check the temps going in and at least once or twice during the time in the oven. If the soap seems to be reluctant to heat sufficiently, I will turn the oven on again until it comes up to temperature and then turn it off again.

Another thing I have learned is that sometimes that big oil slick on top of the soap does actually re-absorb given enough time. For me I have had this happen with some FO's. The trouble is, I don't always like to wait as long as it takes. And the other problem is that when that happens, it's usually an FO I discover I cannot tolerate the smell of and don't want to wait anyway. I am sure there are other reasons, but that's what I've had happen.

I'd love to see your newer photos as you are able to upload them.

 

[dibbles]

There was a high water/low water SMF challenge a couple of years ago. Reading through the thread might be helpful for you, and there are a lot of posts about the trial & error from members:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=57559&highlight=high+water

There should be an entry thread with pictures of completed soaps as well.

You said that you used 1.4:1 and 1.6:1 for your water:lye ratio. I don't think that is a big enough difference to give you the effect you want. Auntie Clara and the challenge both used 2.4:1 and 1.4:1

 

[Seawolfe]

I've done ghost swirls with the water closer to Auntie Clara's water ratios and they came out just fine, but Im not sure why you are CPOPing? I've never had any luck with putting my soap in the oven - it overheats too easily. If I need more warmth I just insulate well with towels, or in the winter use a heating pad as well.

 

[navigator9]

I will definitely take that into consideration next time and thanks for the tip.

Just read something interesting. Thought I would get back with you on this.
- Boiling a pan of water
-Put the soap in the oven
-Place the boiling water on the bottom of the oven
-Heat to 400 degrees for exactly 1 minute
-Turn off the oven and leave the heated water in with the soap?
What do you think would be the result ~ Maybe at a lower temperature?

I think any way you can provide gentle heat should work.